I suppose there might be success to be had, here. There might be network opportunities. There might be opportunities for friendship and other things I value.
But the bar to entry is too high. I don’t have a strong academic background. I was once close to math. I’d hold up two cross fingers and say, “Like this.” But years, decades have come between us. My only education in philosophy is by proxy.
I don’t mean to paint a picture without hope, I’m a bright guy. I could maybe catch up if I applied myself, if I worked at it, if I let some other things slide for a while.
I just mean to turn it around. I ask myself why I keep company with people who don’t recognize how socially toxic it is to marginalize the suffering of rape victims. I ask myself if it is enough that they are one of many groups who espouse a form of self-improvement. Could it ever be enough?
I suppose it’s because the author of HP&tMoR is here, and might respond to someone’s post on the topic. And I suppose it helps, too that no one has to know I’m here, participating.
You guys really fail on the outreach. I hope that one day each and every one of you that hurts this community in that way understands the role you play in undoing something nice that could have been something beautiful. I admit to being evil, and am unashamed to look forward to your suffering.
Um, LW is growing very well, thank you. In fact at this point I’m more worried about the ‘unwilling to consider controversial ideas due to signaling’ failure mode than the ‘stop growing due to being too controversial’ failure mode.
You guys really fail on the outreach. I hope that one day each and every one of you that hurts this community in that way understands the role you play in undoing something nice that could have been something beautiful. I admit to being evil, and am unashamed to look forward to your suffering.
On the contrary, I’m already here. The decision I shared, that stirred up so much hostility, wasn’t that I was leaving. It’s that I wasn’t going to tell other people about Less Wrong.
Only one of the dozen or so people I call friends in meatspace identifies as ‘evil.’ None of the scores of friendly acquaintances I have do. It’s pretty uncommon.
No, what “stirred up so much hostility” was you’re suggestion that we censor people for being “unmarketable”.
Thanks. It’s rather obvious once you point it out. Not the first time my self-centeredness has blinded me to the real reason people were cross with me, won’t be the last.
Censorship is necessary. The poison that kills your garden and undermines your movement won’t always be the new blood or the outsider. Sometimes it will be someone you respect who steps out of bounds.
That post was about deleting people who refuse to engage in rational argument, not deleting posts that use rational argument in ways that are “unmarketable” as you put it.
Let’s put it this way, would you also suggest we delete all the posts critical of religion because it also puts of a lot of people?
That post was about deleting people who refuse to engage in rational argument, not deleting posts that use rational argument in ways that are “unmarketable” as you put it.
Let’s put it this way, would you also suggest we delete all the posts critical of religion because it also puts of a lot of people?
the utility of censorship is not exclusive to the situations described in that post.
But in the end, no. This conversation didn’t start when I issued a call to action, but when I expressed a difficult decision I had made for myself. I didn’t know that people were reading it as a directive until someone pointed that out.
Anyway, it’s far too late to change: that rape article is over two years old. “Better late than never” doesn’t mean that late is always good enough. In this case, it’s definitely not.
In a world with wishes—but where I didn’t immediately wish for a world without wishes—maybe I’d wish that Less Wrong would be image conscious enough to distance itself from people who unapologetically marginalize the suffering of rape victims, maybe not. But the call I get to make is whether or not to facilitate the process by which my friends and the people with whom I would like to be friends forget that I have any contact with Less Wrong. It is not whether or not to facilitate the process by which Less Wrong rehabilitates its status as a haven for creeps, creep enablers, or creep apologists.
In a world with wishes—but where I didn’t immediately wish for a world without wishes—maybe I’d wish that Less Wrong would be image conscious enough to distance itself from people who unapologetically marginalize the suffering of rape victims, maybe not. But the call I get to make is whether or not to facilitate the process by which my friends and the people with whom I would like to be friends forget that I have any contact with Less Wrong. It is not whether or not to facilitate the process by which Less Wrong rehabilitates its status as a haven for creeps, creep enablers, or creep apologists.
This ad hominem filled screed, is an example of the kind of refusal to engage in rational argument that is worthy of censorship.
I just mean to turn it around. I ask myself why I keep company with people who don’t recognize how socially toxic it is to marginalize the suffering of rape victims. I ask myself if it is enough that they are one of many groups who espouse a form of self-improvement. Could it ever be enough?
I think that in certain cases he does know he comes across as a jerk, but he just doesn’t care. (Not sure about the rape post specifically.)
The vast majority of Less Wrong users are NPCs. They claim to have learned and internalized all of the ~rationality skills~ discussed here, but none of them have anything to protect, and for some reason a large number of uplifted humans all care exclusively about the goals of the celebrities here. Less Wrong is a horrible community filled with middle-class white men who hate women.
But occasionally, someone posts something useful. You seem like you have a goal, or at least a thing to protect; don’t let sub-human scum like that keep you from that, in any way.
Using an RSS reader helps; you can see the main post without seeing the comments, and you can pass over the circlejerking that takes up most of the space.
Thank you for the sympathetic perspective. But I do what to clarify that am not the crusader. I am one who sees the crusade coming and gets out of the way.
I have been defending a decision I made, here. It hasn’t been my convictions about good and evil or right and wrong, but rather about prudence and discretion.
I will admit that I let it get personal, but all I’ve been defending is myself.
I suppose there might be success to be had, here. There might be network opportunities. There might be opportunities for friendship and other things I value.
But the bar to entry is too high. I don’t have a strong academic background. I was once close to math. I’d hold up two cross fingers and say, “Like this.” But years, decades have come between us. My only education in philosophy is by proxy.
I don’t mean to paint a picture without hope, I’m a bright guy. I could maybe catch up if I applied myself, if I worked at it, if I let some other things slide for a while.
I just mean to turn it around. I ask myself why I keep company with people who don’t recognize how socially toxic it is to marginalize the suffering of rape victims. I ask myself if it is enough that they are one of many groups who espouse a form of self-improvement. Could it ever be enough?
I suppose it’s because the author of HP&tMoR is here, and might respond to someone’s post on the topic. And I suppose it helps, too that no one has to know I’m here, participating.
You guys really fail on the outreach. I hope that one day each and every one of you that hurts this community in that way understands the role you play in undoing something nice that could have been something beautiful. I admit to being evil, and am unashamed to look forward to your suffering.
Um, LW is growing very well, thank you. In fact at this point I’m more worried about the ‘unwilling to consider controversial ideas due to signaling’ failure mode than the ‘stop growing due to being too controversial’ failure mode.
Or perhaps in this case we excel at screening.
On the contrary, I’m already here. The decision I shared, that stirred up so much hostility, wasn’t that I was leaving. It’s that I wasn’t going to tell other people about Less Wrong.
Only one of the dozen or so people I call friends in meatspace identifies as ‘evil.’ None of the scores of friendly acquaintances I have do. It’s pretty uncommon.
No, what “stirred up so much hostility” was you’re suggestion that we censor people for being “unmarketable”.
Thanks. It’s rather obvious once you point it out. Not the first time my self-centeredness has blinded me to the real reason people were cross with me, won’t be the last.
Censorship is necessary. The poison that kills your garden and undermines your movement won’t always be the new blood or the outsider. Sometimes it will be someone you respect who steps out of bounds.
That post was about deleting people who refuse to engage in rational argument, not deleting posts that use rational argument in ways that are “unmarketable” as you put it.
Let’s put it this way, would you also suggest we delete all the posts critical of religion because it also puts of a lot of people?
the utility of censorship is not exclusive to the situations described in that post.
But in the end, no. This conversation didn’t start when I issued a call to action, but when I expressed a difficult decision I had made for myself. I didn’t know that people were reading it as a directive until someone pointed that out.
Anyway, it’s far too late to change: that rape article is over two years old. “Better late than never” doesn’t mean that late is always good enough. In this case, it’s definitely not.
In a world with wishes—but where I didn’t immediately wish for a world without wishes—maybe I’d wish that Less Wrong would be image conscious enough to distance itself from people who unapologetically marginalize the suffering of rape victims, maybe not. But the call I get to make is whether or not to facilitate the process by which my friends and the people with whom I would like to be friends forget that I have any contact with Less Wrong. It is not whether or not to facilitate the process by which Less Wrong rehabilitates its status as a haven for creeps, creep enablers, or creep apologists.
This ad hominem filled screed, is an example of the kind of refusal to engage in rational argument that is worthy of censorship.
I think that in certain cases he does know he comes across as a jerk, but he just doesn’t care. (Not sure about the rape post specifically.)
The vast majority of Less Wrong users are NPCs. They claim to have learned and internalized all of the ~rationality skills~ discussed here, but none of them have anything to protect, and for some reason a large number of uplifted humans all care exclusively about the goals of the celebrities here. Less Wrong is a horrible community filled with middle-class white men who hate women.
But occasionally, someone posts something useful. You seem like you have a goal, or at least a thing to protect; don’t let sub-human scum like that keep you from that, in any way.
Using an RSS reader helps; you can see the main post without seeing the comments, and you can pass over the circlejerking that takes up most of the space.
Thank you for providing the subhuman masses an example of warmth and love. I am truly touched by your radiating compassion.
Thank you for the sympathetic perspective. But I do what to clarify that am not the crusader. I am one who sees the crusade coming and gets out of the way.
I have been defending a decision I made, here. It hasn’t been my convictions about good and evil or right and wrong, but rather about prudence and discretion.
I will admit that I let it get personal, but all I’ve been defending is myself.