And I wouldn’t really try to figure out how to be happy by looking at what religions say about it.
People have been thinking about the problem for thousands of years, most of the written answers we’ve got come from religion and philosophy. Maybe they’re all terrible answers but virtue of scholarship, sometimes I read a book and check.
(Which is—I’m sorry to say it—perfectly illustrated by your whole “let’s look at the Wikipedia page for each religion and see how many times it mentions ‘happy’ or ‘happiness’” thing. Come on! Obviously that is a nonsensical thing to be doing here! It isn’t even a “quick and dirty approximation” to anything; it’s just noise.)
I mean, not total nonsense but it isn’t a very detailed way to figure this out, I just couldn’t think of a better way after thinking for sixty seconds that didn’t involve doing some kind of literature review on each of them.
On the contrary, Buddhism strikes me as a religion which is deeply anti-life and pro-death (very “life goals of dead people”). I would not even consider going to such people for insights about joy, of all things. Hence my somewhat incredulous comment.
Checking: Have you ever read a book to learn about Buddhism before coming to the conclusion that you wouldn’t consider going to them about it? Talked to a Buddhist for a while? Read a dictionary entry? A book review of some other book?
I’m not particularly disagreeing with your conclusion at the moment, just- dude, I talked to a few Buddhists in passing, they told me a bit about what they believed, I read a book about it, I wrote a review of the book. If it bugs you that I asserted “Buddhism is unusually X” in the preamble to a book review would this go away if I added a citation from the Dalai Lama saying something to this effect, because I still have the book and I’m pretty sure there’s a line in there somewhere. I have watched you assert wilder things with less evidence though so I think this is an isolated demand for pedantry.
Maybe they’re all terrible answers but virtue of scholarship, sometimes I read a book and check.
Don’t get me wrong—I appreciate the book review!
Checking: Have you ever read a book to learn about Buddhism before coming to the conclusion that you wouldn’t consider going to them about it? Talked to a Buddhist for a while? Read a dictionary entry? A book review of some other book?
Yeah, of course. All of the above. (I forget if the book was about Buddhism specifically or comparative religion more generally; it was in college, which was a while ago. The rest, relatively recent. I mean, Buddhism has gotten a lot of coverage here on LW, among other things. Then there’s David Chapman’s writings on Buddhism… it’s not like there’s any shortage of sources!)
If it bugs you that I asserted “Buddhism is unusually X” in the preamble to a book review would this go away if I added a citation from the Dalai Lama saying something to this effect, because I still have the book and I’m pretty sure there’s a line in there somewhere.
I am kind of confused by this reaction. I mean, you said a thing (“Buddhism is unusually attentive to the whole suffering and joy thing”), and as far as I could tell, this was you saying it, not you reporting a claim that was made in the book. (Am I mistaken about this?)
And I am asking: do you actually for real believe this? If so, why do you believe it? I’m not asking for citations, like I’m a reviewer of an academic paper that you submitted. It’s not a criticism that you need to address in order to placate me.
Answers I would expect might include things like:
“Ah, no, this is not my belief, this is a thing the book says.”
“Yep, I think that this is actually true, because [reasons].”
“Eh, I dunno, I guess it’s more like a vague impression, but maybe it’s wrong; I haven’t thought about it too hard… you think I’m wrong about this? Say more?”
“Actually I was being sarcastic. I don’t really think that!”
“Yes I more or less believe this but I can see why many people would take the opposite view, it’s complicated, but anyhow it’s not critical to the review.”
“Of course I believe it, why wouldn’t I? Isn’t it very obviously and uncontroversially true? Why, do you claim otherwise…? On what basis?”
Any of those would make sense as an answer to my question!
I still have the book and I’m pretty sure there’s a line in there somewhere
Ok, see, this sounds like “actually I was reporting a claim made in the book”, and if that’s the full explanation then, cool, that does in fact answer my question. (Obviously it could instead be that the book claims this but your line about it was still you describing your own independent belief, in which case the question stands.)
I have watched you assert wilder things with less evidence though so I think this is an isolated demand for pedantry.
You are absolutely, 100%, welcome to question what I believe and why!
People have been thinking about the problem for thousands of years, most of the written answers we’ve got come from religion and philosophy. Maybe they’re all terrible answers but virtue of scholarship, sometimes I read a book and check.
I mean, not total nonsense but it isn’t a very detailed way to figure this out, I just couldn’t think of a better way after thinking for sixty seconds that didn’t involve doing some kind of literature review on each of them.
Checking: Have you ever read a book to learn about Buddhism before coming to the conclusion that you wouldn’t consider going to them about it? Talked to a Buddhist for a while? Read a dictionary entry? A book review of some other book?
I’m not particularly disagreeing with your conclusion at the moment, just- dude, I talked to a few Buddhists in passing, they told me a bit about what they believed, I read a book about it, I wrote a review of the book. If it bugs you that I asserted “Buddhism is unusually X” in the preamble to a book review would this go away if I added a citation from the Dalai Lama saying something to this effect, because I still have the book and I’m pretty sure there’s a line in there somewhere. I have watched you assert wilder things with less evidence though so I think this is an isolated demand for pedantry.
Don’t get me wrong—I appreciate the book review!
Yeah, of course. All of the above. (I forget if the book was about Buddhism specifically or comparative religion more generally; it was in college, which was a while ago. The rest, relatively recent. I mean, Buddhism has gotten a lot of coverage here on LW, among other things. Then there’s David Chapman’s writings on Buddhism… it’s not like there’s any shortage of sources!)
I am kind of confused by this reaction. I mean, you said a thing (“Buddhism is unusually attentive to the whole suffering and joy thing”), and as far as I could tell, this was you saying it, not you reporting a claim that was made in the book. (Am I mistaken about this?)
And I am asking: do you actually for real believe this? If so, why do you believe it? I’m not asking for citations, like I’m a reviewer of an academic paper that you submitted. It’s not a criticism that you need to address in order to placate me.
Answers I would expect might include things like:
“Ah, no, this is not my belief, this is a thing the book says.”
“Yep, I think that this is actually true, because [reasons].”
“Eh, I dunno, I guess it’s more like a vague impression, but maybe it’s wrong; I haven’t thought about it too hard… you think I’m wrong about this? Say more?”
“Actually I was being sarcastic. I don’t really think that!”
“Yes I more or less believe this but I can see why many people would take the opposite view, it’s complicated, but anyhow it’s not critical to the review.”
“Of course I believe it, why wouldn’t I? Isn’t it very obviously and uncontroversially true? Why, do you claim otherwise…? On what basis?”
Any of those would make sense as an answer to my question!
Ok, see, this sounds like “actually I was reporting a claim made in the book”, and if that’s the full explanation then, cool, that does in fact answer my question. (Obviously it could instead be that the book claims this but your line about it was still you describing your own independent belief, in which case the question stands.)
You are absolutely, 100%, welcome to question what I believe and why!