I don’t understand why rationalism would be destroyed by Zizianism. The murders have not been against rationalists. Do you mean, “If rationalism’s reputation is damaged as a result of association”?
The quoted paragraph is a reference to a CS Lewis essay about living under the threat of global thermonuclear war. The euphony and symmetry with the original quote is damaged by making it slightly more accurate by using that phrase instead of “if we are going to be destroyed by Zizianism.”
I believe the fear is something more like rationalists converting to Zizianism, and thereby becoming murderers, as happened to Ophelia (Felix) among others. At least that is my primary fear.
As documented in the 2023 Medium article, Ziz has threatened to murder rationalists for a while, and I’m aware prominent rationalists have been paranoid about possible attempts on their life by Zizians for the past few years. Aella has also recently stated on Twitter she wouldn’t accept an interview on the subject without an upgraded security system on her house.
I see. Well, in case one of them reads this: to the extent it might matter to you, as a fellow radical vegan I request you not kill anyone trying to figure out how to make the first takeover-capable AI be benevolent.
(I’m aware that humans are such that it’s not obvious that designer-chosen-alignment → benevolence, and that one does actually have to reason about that instead of just assuming the hopeful option, but after having reasoned about it, I think most would choose benevolence in the end.[1] At least, I do not expect important exceptions to be alignment researchers, as opposed to selected-for power-seekers in high positions.)
It seems to me that actually reflectively endorsing evil (objectively describing what’s happening and then being like “this is good”, instead of euphemizing and coping with arguments that often secretly amount to “if you’re right then the world would be really bad, and that’s scary” like “but nature has it”) is rare, and most people are actually altruistic on some level but conformism overrides that and animal abuse is so normal that they usually don’t notice it, but then when they see basic information like “cows have best friends and get stressed when they are separated” they seemingly get empathetic and reflective (check the comments).
I don’t understand why rationalism would be destroyed by Zizianism. The murders have not been against rationalists. Do you mean, “If rationalism’s reputation is damaged as a result of association”?
The quoted paragraph is a reference to a CS Lewis essay about living under the threat of global thermonuclear war. The euphony and symmetry with the original quote is damaged by making it slightly more accurate by using that phrase instead of “if we are going to be destroyed by Zizianism.”
I believe the fear is something more like rationalists converting to Zizianism, and thereby becoming murderers, as happened to Ophelia (Felix) among others. At least that is my primary fear.
Yet. (I assumed this possibility & understandable fear is what Ben had in mind.)
As documented in the 2023 Medium article, Ziz has threatened to murder rationalists for a while, and I’m aware prominent rationalists have been paranoid about possible attempts on their life by Zizians for the past few years. Aella has also recently stated on Twitter she wouldn’t accept an interview on the subject without an upgraded security system on her house.
I see. Well, in case one of them reads this: to the extent it might matter to you, as a fellow radical vegan I request you not kill anyone trying to figure out how to make the first takeover-capable AI be benevolent.
(I’m aware that humans are such that it’s not obvious that designer-chosen-alignment → benevolence, and that one does actually have to reason about that instead of just assuming the hopeful option, but after having reasoned about it, I think most would choose benevolence in the end.[1] At least, I do not expect important exceptions to be alignment researchers, as opposed to selected-for power-seekers in high positions.)
It seems to me that actually reflectively endorsing evil (objectively describing what’s happening and then being like “this is good”, instead of euphemizing and coping with arguments that often secretly amount to “if you’re right then the world would be really bad, and that’s scary” like “but nature has it”) is rare, and most people are actually altruistic on some level but conformism overrides that and animal abuse is so normal that they usually don’t notice it, but then when they see basic information like “cows have best friends and get stressed when they are separated” they seemingly get empathetic and reflective (check the comments).
Thank you for your kind words, but I wouldn’t bet on Ziz actually listening to them.
@Ben Pace care to elaborate?