MRA, the difference between winning an argument with someone, versus pushing them into the dirt—well, there’s a number of differences, really. The three most important are: First, I didn’t force him to talk to me. Second, losing an argument makes you stronger. (Or rather, it gives you a precious chance to become stronger; whether he took advantage of it was up to him. Winning is a null-op, of course.)
Third and above all, in factual arguments there is such a thing as truth and falsity.
Yes, but humans are emotional beings, and we must recognize this.
Sure, it is his fault he is so ignorant, but the difference between calmly explaining to him what is wrong with his thinking, and making fun of him, is that you hurt him on an emotional level.
One must always live on both planes, and must always recognize what kind of argument he is dealing with.
Emotional arguments are things to stay away from, because they only strengthen a person in the sense that bullying someone strengthens them, as opposed to teaching them KaraTe.
People are tested in the little things. The unimportant things. That is where your personality shows.
(BTW, how can you like this, and hate Gemara?)
I agree with your general points, but I don’t think that they apply here. Why do you say that Eliezer hurt this guy emotionally? He did amuse a witness, and it’s possible that later she came and laughed at the guy, or something, but there’s no evidence for that. On the contrary, the guy got a little confusion, technically won an argument (after having to clarify his position), and just maybe got something to think about.
(FYI, the MRA who posted is not Ames.)
MRA, the difference between winning an argument with someone, versus pushing them into the dirt—well, there’s a number of differences, really. The three most important are: First, I didn’t force him to talk to me. Second, losing an argument makes you stronger. (Or rather, it gives you a precious chance to become stronger; whether he took advantage of it was up to him. Winning is a null-op, of course.)
Third and above all, in factual arguments there is such a thing as truth and falsity.
Yes, but humans are emotional beings, and we must recognize this. Sure, it is his fault he is so ignorant, but the difference between calmly explaining to him what is wrong with his thinking, and making fun of him, is that you hurt him on an emotional level. One must always live on both planes, and must always recognize what kind of argument he is dealing with. Emotional arguments are things to stay away from, because they only strengthen a person in the sense that bullying someone strengthens them, as opposed to teaching them KaraTe. People are tested in the little things. The unimportant things. That is where your personality shows. (BTW, how can you like this, and hate Gemara?)
I agree with your general points, but I don’t think that they apply here. Why do you say that Eliezer hurt this guy emotionally? He did amuse a witness, and it’s possible that later she came and laughed at the guy, or something, but there’s no evidence for that. On the contrary, the guy got a little confusion, technically won an argument (after having to clarify his position), and just maybe got something to think about.
The only really cheap shot is citing Aumann.
i second :)