If you get into Harvard, you should accept. Figure out a way to pay for at least a semester. Even if you drop out, you still went to Harvard, which carries more weight than graduating with honors from some fine schools.
Can you unpack your thinking here a bit? Is it just prestige-related (“carries more weight”)? It’s not clear to me that Harvard (despite of course being one of the world’s great universities) is preferable to all other schools in a hands-down, no-need-for-further-questions kind of way. So I’m curious what general kind of advice lies behind this.
I would especially disagree that it’s generally thought more highly of to have dropped out of Harvard after one semester than to have graduated with honors from some other schools of at least “fine” quality.
In case there was any doubt, I never went to Harvard.
Not everybody should go to Harvard, even if they could be accepted. Some young American adults who know themselves very well would be quite right in preferring (for example) Julliard or Annapolis or not going to college right out of high school (or ever).
You’re right in thinking my suggestion was mostly prestige-related. I’m under the impression that the libraries at Harvard are amazingly excellent, that the student body has an unusual amount of interesting people (which this poster regarded as a factor) and that the actual undergraduate classes themselves are at least pretty good. I’m not under the impression that a freshman-level class at Harvard is necessarily much different or better than a comparable class at a good, unknown state school. However, for better or worse (no doubt worse) as a brand, Harvard is the H-bomb. I think the Harvard name can get a resume through an otherwise impervious human resources wall. A Harvard dropout seeking funding for a startup can invoke Bill Gates. The more recent success of Facebook doesn’t hurt.
P.S. It occurs to me that my theory is testable. Not that I have the time or inclination to do the hard work. But an intrepid researcher could concoct a few hundred fake resumes, some alluding to prestigious schools, some asserting high achievement at unknown schools, to a selection of companies and government agencies and nonprofits and so on and record the proportion of responses. I wonder if such a study has already been made public.
There’s no doubt in my mind that something like the Harvard effect you’re describing is quite real. What I’m skeptical of is the proposition that it’s so extreme that it outweighs a similar MIT effect (for example) even in the case where MIT is objectively the better fit for the student in question.
The nice thing about MIT as an example is that in that case, you can have your cake and eat it—MIT is close enough to Harvard you can take classes at both or transfer if you want. (IIRC, Richard Stallman did just that.)
It’s worth noting that you can only attend MIT but take classes at Harvard if MIT doesn’t offer them; if you’re only attending for one semester of your freshman year, you probably won’t be able to take any classes.
It’s worth noting that you can only attend MIT but take classes at Harvard if MIT doesn’t offer them;
As an MIT student, I can certify that this is false. You can take any Harvard classes that you want as long as you’re willing to make the commute. What you may be thinking of is that you often can’t get specific credits (e.g. satisfy a humanities requirement) by taking Harvard classes that have equivalents at MIT.
Harvard has a pretty nice financial aid system that would make attending affordable (for my parents/me) for all 4 years. If I get in, its pretty high up on my list.
In any case, congratulations on being accepted to the three schools you mentioned! You’re not in bad shape, not at all.
I’d be interested in hearing from any LWers who are attending or who have attended MIT . . . is the whole “praise-free zone” reputation still deserved?
Also in general, I’m under the impression that USC is pretty expensive, without an extraordinary educational/reputational benefit to match—unless you’re committed to staying in the Los Angeles area (or if you were thinking of going into film, which I don’t think is the case). In Los Angeles, they have a big base of alumni, but you’re going to have to talk football to take full advantage of that.
Re: MIT… well, I went there, but it was >20 years ago, so I can’t speak to what it’s like now with any significant credibility. That said, I am at least peripherally involved in its social milieu… in fact, I’m having my wedding reception there later this year… so I guess I’m not completely disconnected.
The impression I get is that the “praise-free zone” nature of the place hasn’t changed and isn’t likely to. There’s a strong cultural bias towards what I think of as the UNIX attitude towards feedback—“there’s no reason to provide any return values on success; if something had gone wrong we would have told you”—which means that creating your own reward structure is an important skill.
I’m not sure what you mean by praise-free zone, so I’m not sure if I’m answering the right question here.
When I made top 12 on the Putnam, the professors who were aware of it congratulated me; I don’t think they congratulated people in general who made honorable mention, although possibly because that consisted of several people. In my lab, if someone wins an award we generally send out an e-mail to the lab mailing list congratulating them. A particularly clever insight will elicit someone saying “that’s a nice way of thinking about the problem”. (I should also note that I’m probably one of the more capable undergrads so I might receive more positive feedback than the average person.)
Of course these sorts of things are difficult and probably only happen a few times a week (on the level of insights) and much rarer on the level of meaningful awards, so if you want someone to be praising you every time you do well on a problem set then MIT is probably not the place for you.
If you get into Harvard, you should accept. Figure out a way to pay for at least a semester. Even if you drop out, you still went to Harvard, which carries more weight than graduating with honors from some fine schools.
Can you unpack your thinking here a bit? Is it just prestige-related (“carries more weight”)? It’s not clear to me that Harvard (despite of course being one of the world’s great universities) is preferable to all other schools in a hands-down, no-need-for-further-questions kind of way. So I’m curious what general kind of advice lies behind this.
I would especially disagree that it’s generally thought more highly of to have dropped out of Harvard after one semester than to have graduated with honors from some other schools of at least “fine” quality.
In case there was any doubt, I never went to Harvard.
Not everybody should go to Harvard, even if they could be accepted. Some young American adults who know themselves very well would be quite right in preferring (for example) Julliard or Annapolis or not going to college right out of high school (or ever).
You’re right in thinking my suggestion was mostly prestige-related. I’m under the impression that the libraries at Harvard are amazingly excellent, that the student body has an unusual amount of interesting people (which this poster regarded as a factor) and that the actual undergraduate classes themselves are at least pretty good. I’m not under the impression that a freshman-level class at Harvard is necessarily much different or better than a comparable class at a good, unknown state school. However, for better or worse (no doubt worse) as a brand, Harvard is the H-bomb. I think the Harvard name can get a resume through an otherwise impervious human resources wall. A Harvard dropout seeking funding for a startup can invoke Bill Gates. The more recent success of Facebook doesn’t hurt.
P.S. It occurs to me that my theory is testable. Not that I have the time or inclination to do the hard work. But an intrepid researcher could concoct a few hundred fake resumes, some alluding to prestigious schools, some asserting high achievement at unknown schools, to a selection of companies and government agencies and nonprofits and so on and record the proportion of responses. I wonder if such a study has already been made public.
There’s no doubt in my mind that something like the Harvard effect you’re describing is quite real. What I’m skeptical of is the proposition that it’s so extreme that it outweighs a similar MIT effect (for example) even in the case where MIT is objectively the better fit for the student in question.
The nice thing about MIT as an example is that in that case, you can have your cake and eat it—MIT is close enough to Harvard you can take classes at both or transfer if you want. (IIRC, Richard Stallman did just that.)
It’s worth noting that you can only attend MIT but take classes at Harvard if MIT doesn’t offer them; if you’re only attending for one semester of your freshman year, you probably won’t be able to take any classes.
Edit: Not actually true, see below. My apologies!
As an MIT student, I can certify that this is false. You can take any Harvard classes that you want as long as you’re willing to make the commute. What you may be thinking of is that you often can’t get specific credits (e.g. satisfy a humanities requirement) by taking Harvard classes that have equivalents at MIT.
Harvard has a pretty nice financial aid system that would make attending affordable (for my parents/me) for all 4 years. If I get in, its pretty high up on my list.
In any case, congratulations on being accepted to the three schools you mentioned! You’re not in bad shape, not at all.
I’d be interested in hearing from any LWers who are attending or who have attended MIT . . . is the whole “praise-free zone” reputation still deserved?
Also in general, I’m under the impression that USC is pretty expensive, without an extraordinary educational/reputational benefit to match—unless you’re committed to staying in the Los Angeles area (or if you were thinking of going into film, which I don’t think is the case). In Los Angeles, they have a big base of alumni, but you’re going to have to talk football to take full advantage of that.
Re: MIT… well, I went there, but it was >20 years ago, so I can’t speak to what it’s like now with any significant credibility. That said, I am at least peripherally involved in its social milieu… in fact, I’m having my wedding reception there later this year… so I guess I’m not completely disconnected.
The impression I get is that the “praise-free zone” nature of the place hasn’t changed and isn’t likely to. There’s a strong cultural bias towards what I think of as the UNIX attitude towards feedback—“there’s no reason to provide any return values on success; if something had gone wrong we would have told you”—which means that creating your own reward structure is an important skill.
I’m not sure what you mean by praise-free zone, so I’m not sure if I’m answering the right question here.
When I made top 12 on the Putnam, the professors who were aware of it congratulated me; I don’t think they congratulated people in general who made honorable mention, although possibly because that consisted of several people. In my lab, if someone wins an award we generally send out an e-mail to the lab mailing list congratulating them. A particularly clever insight will elicit someone saying “that’s a nice way of thinking about the problem”. (I should also note that I’m probably one of the more capable undergrads so I might receive more positive feedback than the average person.)
Of course these sorts of things are difficult and probably only happen a few times a week (on the level of insights) and much rarer on the level of meaningful awards, so if you want someone to be praising you every time you do well on a problem set then MIT is probably not the place for you.
I only know MIT by reputation...I’m sureTheOtherDave knows the real deal on whatever the origin of the “praise-free zone” story may have been.
Congratulations on your achievement on the Putnam. I have no reservations about praising you for that.
I only know MIT by reputation—I …I’m sureTheOtherDave knows the real deal on whatever the origin of the “praise-free zone” story may have been.
Congratulations on your achievement on the Putnam. I have no reservations about praising you for that.
Thanks!
I forgot to mention that I’m under scholarship consideration at UMD and USC, so that’s some of their main draws.
I’m familiar with the rules of football, and would be willing to talk/learn about it if doing so would be helpful.