Give up on justifying answers and just try to figure out what the answers really actually are, i.e., are you really actually inside an Evil Demon or not. Once you learn to quantify the reasoning involved using math, the justification thing will seem much more straightforward when you eventually return to it. Meanwhile you’re asking the wrong question. Real epistemology is about finding correct answers, not justifying them to philosophers.
Judging from things you have said in the past, you are of the view that philosophy is about how to act in the world. Just to make it clear, the discussion is about what is true in the topic area, whether useful or not. Without a justification, I cannot rationally believe in the truth of the senses.
The Foundationalists have argued that probability is off the table because it is either a subjective feeling or an estimation of empirical evidence. Subjective feelings do not make a proper basis for justification, and if probability is based on empirical evidence and empirical evidence is based on probability it doesn’t work. The Coherentists conceded on probability and moved on to using “tenability” (I.e believing x provisionally) to justify empirical evidence for fear of accusations of direct circularity.
I don’t see any way out of the metaphorical vicious circle- a conception of probability that gives a role to empirical data cannot be used to justify empirical data.
Without a justification, I cannot rationally believe in the truth of the senses.
Yeah you can. Like, are you wearing socks? Yes, you’re wearing socks. People were capable of this for ages before philosophy. That’s not about what’s useful, it’s about what’s true. How to justify it is a way more complex issue. But if you lose sight of the fact that you are really actually in real life wearing socks, and reminding you of this doesn’t help, you may be beyond my ability to rescue by simple reminders. I guess you could read “The Simple Truth”, “Highly Advanced Epistemology 101 for Beginners”, and if that’s not enough the rest of the Sequences.
I don’t really see the relevance of “The Simple Truth” to this discussion besides its criticism of Coherentism. Next I read “The Useful Idea of Truth” and basically interpreted it as follows:
-The refutation of subjectivism is in that experimental predictions are determined by belief, experimental results are determined by reality.
(Edit: Your discussion of the idea of ‘post-utopian’ could be considered useful. I’m guessing you would question the way the term justified is being referred to. The Foundationalists and Coherentists each have their own idea of what means to be justified- in the debate, the Foundationalists provisionally define it as what must be true in any possible universe plus what can be rationally inferred without any other starting assumptions from such (“rationally” meaning all rules proven to work based on truths in the former category). The Coherentists define justification according to their web of beliefs. Both are arguing about which side has good reasoning.)
This is clearly circular. You did solve the problem of doubting the senses alone by reference to the difference between experimental predictions and results. That does not solve the problem of doubting induction, doubting the principle of probability, or doubting memory.
As for Tyrell’s recommendation of “Where recursive justification hits bottom”, in that you appear to me to be a Coherentist. However, the article basically appeals to “How best to achieve things in the world.” In the discussion that started it all, we had all agreed to focus on what was true about the subject matter under debate whether useful or not.
I’ll keep going, but I don’t see anything else that might be relevant.
Give up on justifying answers and just try to figure out what the answers really actually are, i.e., are you really actually inside an Evil Demon or not. Once you learn to quantify the reasoning involved using math, the justification thing will seem much more straightforward when you eventually return to it. Meanwhile you’re asking the wrong question. Real epistemology is about finding correct answers, not justifying them to philosophers.
Judging from things you have said in the past, you are of the view that philosophy is about how to act in the world. Just to make it clear, the discussion is about what is true in the topic area, whether useful or not. Without a justification, I cannot rationally believe in the truth of the senses.
The Foundationalists have argued that probability is off the table because it is either a subjective feeling or an estimation of empirical evidence. Subjective feelings do not make a proper basis for justification, and if probability is based on empirical evidence and empirical evidence is based on probability it doesn’t work. The Coherentists conceded on probability and moved on to using “tenability” (I.e believing x provisionally) to justify empirical evidence for fear of accusations of direct circularity.
I don’t see any way out of the metaphorical vicious circle- a conception of probability that gives a role to empirical data cannot be used to justify empirical data.
Yeah you can. Like, are you wearing socks? Yes, you’re wearing socks. People were capable of this for ages before philosophy. That’s not about what’s useful, it’s about what’s true. How to justify it is a way more complex issue. But if you lose sight of the fact that you are really actually in real life wearing socks, and reminding you of this doesn’t help, you may be beyond my ability to rescue by simple reminders. I guess you could read “The Simple Truth”, “Highly Advanced Epistemology 101 for Beginners”, and if that’s not enough the rest of the Sequences.
I don’t really see the relevance of “The Simple Truth” to this discussion besides its criticism of Coherentism. Next I read “The Useful Idea of Truth” and basically interpreted it as follows:
-The refutation of subjectivism is in that experimental predictions are determined by belief, experimental results are determined by reality.
(Edit: Your discussion of the idea of ‘post-utopian’ could be considered useful. I’m guessing you would question the way the term justified is being referred to. The Foundationalists and Coherentists each have their own idea of what means to be justified- in the debate, the Foundationalists provisionally define it as what must be true in any possible universe plus what can be rationally inferred without any other starting assumptions from such (“rationally” meaning all rules proven to work based on truths in the former category). The Coherentists define justification according to their web of beliefs. Both are arguing about which side has good reasoning.)
This is clearly circular. You did solve the problem of doubting the senses alone by reference to the difference between experimental predictions and results. That does not solve the problem of doubting induction, doubting the principle of probability, or doubting memory.
As for Tyrell’s recommendation of “Where recursive justification hits bottom”, in that you appear to me to be a Coherentist. However, the article basically appeals to “How best to achieve things in the world.” In the discussion that started it all, we had all agreed to focus on what was true about the subject matter under debate whether useful or not.
I’ll keep going, but I don’t see anything else that might be relevant.
Going to need some time to go through them- after I have, I’ll come back to you with a new reply.
I would also recommend “Where recursive justification hits bottom”. Maybe start with that one, because it is shorter.