Using narrative to adjust own emotional responses seems like a potentially useful device (if it actually works). I don’t see how that motivates the idea of a “self-image”, what that idea is, more clearly, or if it’s of any use. Keeping your identity empty, in the sense of actively resisting mere status quo as a motivation for keeping patterns of thought, seems like the way to go (apart from whatever simple/consistent facades you need to display to groups of people whose perception of your identity matters for some reason, and it might be psychologically difficult to have more than one of these).
This sounds like exactly the kind of failure mode I’m trying to describe. In your “empty identity” scenario, I’d now guess that an image of “selflessness” or “blankness” or something like that would either bias your beliefs about yourself or slow your processing of them. In particular, it might interfere with certain cognitive capacities that other people find natural, obvious, and useful. This is speculation on my part, but to the extent that narrative features are a bottleneck in how our brains process beliefs about ourselves and others, the way you naturally and efficiently represent yourself to yourself may be physically tied up with with the same brain-bits that represent stories.
My thought here is that it may be better to learn to use that machinery sanely than to not use it… it’s like getting a ridiculously fast software package for analyzing data that makes all sorts of known-to-be-false assumptions about how the data was generated collected. Using it entirely naively is probably bad, as is not using it at all. Knowing that when the package says “X” it’s actually evidence for “Y”, and using it accordingly, is probably best.
Building specific personas more optimized for reacting and navigating different situations and landscapes can be very useful, since they prime your subconscious and can (ab)use Type 1 processes. If the persona is well-built, the right type-1 processes can be selected automatically for situations where subconscious processes are cost-effective and optimal (for a gross simplified example, wearing a Slytherin persona can be useful for having a Type 1 process of showing the appropriate, immediate surprise and puzzlement when someone probes you on something you want to keep secret).
Wink wink: the above slytherin example comes pretty much straight from HPMoR, which is why I don’t feel the need to go into details. Seriously, read it!
I’ve read this post twice, read a bunch of the comments, wrote out answers to all the questions, and I still don’t really understand how this self-image stuff is an improvement over “do what maximizes expected utility” and “believe what’s true”. (I see how certain self-images can be counterproductive, but I don’t really see any great positive uses for this “software package”.) I guess maybe one could foster a self-image as the type of person who reliably executes techniques that achieve those two goals, e.g. seeing oneself as the sort of person who habitually punches through un-endorsed aversions, changes their mind publicly, or honors pre-commitments to themselves?
It would help you and other commenters to have an example in mind of something you want to change about yourself, and what methods you’ve already tried. Do you already do everything that you think you should? Do you ever procrastinate? Do you ever over-weight short-term pains against long-term gains? Is there anything you don’t enjoy such that people who enjoy that thing have better lives than you, in your estimation?
If you answer one of these questions positively, and you have not been paying attention to conscious and unconscious aspects of self-image, I’d expect low hanging fruit there to get yourself to change. If you’re comfortable posting what you want to change and what you’ve already tried, especially to one of the commenters who seems to take benefit from using narrative to motivate themselves, maybe they’ll offer you some ideas.
(I’m not saying that self image is the most important factor here, only that it might be an important marginal factor if you have been ignoring it.)
Do you already do everything that you think you should?
I’d like to do more, but I think I’m probably fairly close to bumping up against my time/energy constraints. It’s rare for me to waste time when I’m energetic and high-morale.
Sometimes I have days of low morale where I don’t get much done, and don’t try to force myself to do things because I know my morale is low and I’ll likely fail. I’m experimenting with a few different strategies for cutting down on low-morale days.
Do you ever procrastinate?
I take breaks. I also sometimes let myself be distracted if I estimate that the time sucked up by the distraction won’t be worth the willpower of forcing myself to avoid it. (I’m experimenting with daily meditation to see if it can make those willpower costs lower, since that seems to have been the case in the past.)
Is there anything you don’t enjoy such that people who enjoy that thing have better lives than you, in your estimation?
Entertainment is the one case where your self-image model seems to fit fairly well: I avoid listening to Britney Spears, for instance, because I don’t want to be the sort of person who likes Britney Spears. (Realistically I think I could probably learn to enjoy it if I wanted to.) But that doesn’t seem like a big loss—there’s lots of music/movies/TV that’s compatible with my self-image already. Enjoying Britney Spears would mean either telling people I liked Britney Spears or keeping my interest covert and probably generating some sort of incidental feeling of insecurity related to this. Neither option appeals to me.
I’d like to have higher energy and better motivation (which might allow me to work on things with less willpower/energy expenditure), but those things seem to me to be more about trying out a wide variety of techniques and empirically determining what works.
Sometimes I have days of low morale where I don’t get much done, and don’t try to force myself to do things because I know my morale is low and I’ll likely fail. I’m experimenting with a few different strategies for cutting down on low-morale days…
I’d like to have … better motivation (which might allow me to work on things with less willpower/energy expenditure),
Morale, and reducing the need for willpower / conscious effort, are things I’ve had success with using self-image changes, e.g. inspired by Naruto :) So...
those things seem to me to be more about trying out a wide variety of techniques and empirically determining what works.
… I’d say paying close attention to how you see yourself and your place in the world during times of low morale is definitely worth experimenting with. I’d actually be quite surprised if there aren’t variables at play there which, if changed, would cause changes in your morale.
I avoid listening to Britney Spears, for instance, because I don’t want to be the sort of person who likes Britney Spears.
Hah! It’s funny you should mention that! Liking Britney Spears was one of the first intentional changes I made to myself at the time I mentioned in the post when I was 16 and trying to be self-image-free. It worked; I realized I naturally quite liked most of her hits, and I always perk up when her music comes on the radio. It’s nice not to have to hate it :)
I’d say paying close attention to how you see yourself and your place in the world during times of low morale is definitely worth experimenting with. I’d actually be quite surprised if there aren’t variables at play there which, if changed, would cause changes in your morale.
Using narrative to adjust own emotional responses seems like a potentially useful device (if it actually works). I don’t see how that motivates the idea of a “self-image”, what that idea is, more clearly, or if it’s of any use. Keeping your identity empty, in the sense of actively resisting mere status quo as a motivation for keeping patterns of thought, seems like the way to go (apart from whatever simple/consistent facades you need to display to groups of people whose perception of your identity matters for some reason, and it might be psychologically difficult to have more than one of these).
This sounds like exactly the kind of failure mode I’m trying to describe. In your “empty identity” scenario, I’d now guess that an image of “selflessness” or “blankness” or something like that would either bias your beliefs about yourself or slow your processing of them. In particular, it might interfere with certain cognitive capacities that other people find natural, obvious, and useful. This is speculation on my part, but to the extent that narrative features are a bottleneck in how our brains process beliefs about ourselves and others, the way you naturally and efficiently represent yourself to yourself may be physically tied up with with the same brain-bits that represent stories.
My thought here is that it may be better to learn to use that machinery sanely than to not use it… it’s like getting a ridiculously fast software package for analyzing data that makes all sorts of known-to-be-false assumptions about how the data was generated collected. Using it entirely naively is probably bad, as is not using it at all. Knowing that when the package says “X” it’s actually evidence for “Y”, and using it accordingly, is probably best.
I agree with most of this, I think.
Building specific personas more optimized for reacting and navigating different situations and landscapes can be very useful, since they prime your subconscious and can (ab)use Type 1 processes. If the persona is well-built, the right type-1 processes can be selected automatically for situations where subconscious processes are cost-effective and optimal (for a gross simplified example, wearing a Slytherin persona can be useful for having a Type 1 process of showing the appropriate, immediate surprise and puzzlement when someone probes you on something you want to keep secret).
Wink wink: the above slytherin example comes pretty much straight from HPMoR, which is why I don’t feel the need to go into details. Seriously, read it!
I’ve read this post twice, read a bunch of the comments, wrote out answers to all the questions, and I still don’t really understand how this self-image stuff is an improvement over “do what maximizes expected utility” and “believe what’s true”. (I see how certain self-images can be counterproductive, but I don’t really see any great positive uses for this “software package”.) I guess maybe one could foster a self-image as the type of person who reliably executes techniques that achieve those two goals, e.g. seeing oneself as the sort of person who habitually punches through un-endorsed aversions, changes their mind publicly, or honors pre-commitments to themselves?
It would help you and other commenters to have an example in mind of something you want to change about yourself, and what methods you’ve already tried. Do you already do everything that you think you should? Do you ever procrastinate? Do you ever over-weight short-term pains against long-term gains? Is there anything you don’t enjoy such that people who enjoy that thing have better lives than you, in your estimation?
If you answer one of these questions positively, and you have not been paying attention to conscious and unconscious aspects of self-image, I’d expect low hanging fruit there to get yourself to change. If you’re comfortable posting what you want to change and what you’ve already tried, especially to one of the commenters who seems to take benefit from using narrative to motivate themselves, maybe they’ll offer you some ideas.
(I’m not saying that self image is the most important factor here, only that it might be an important marginal factor if you have been ignoring it.)
I’d like to do more, but I think I’m probably fairly close to bumping up against my time/energy constraints. It’s rare for me to waste time when I’m energetic and high-morale.
Sometimes I have days of low morale where I don’t get much done, and don’t try to force myself to do things because I know my morale is low and I’ll likely fail. I’m experimenting with a few different strategies for cutting down on low-morale days.
I take breaks. I also sometimes let myself be distracted if I estimate that the time sucked up by the distraction won’t be worth the willpower of forcing myself to avoid it. (I’m experimenting with daily meditation to see if it can make those willpower costs lower, since that seems to have been the case in the past.)
Entertainment is the one case where your self-image model seems to fit fairly well: I avoid listening to Britney Spears, for instance, because I don’t want to be the sort of person who likes Britney Spears. (Realistically I think I could probably learn to enjoy it if I wanted to.) But that doesn’t seem like a big loss—there’s lots of music/movies/TV that’s compatible with my self-image already. Enjoying Britney Spears would mean either telling people I liked Britney Spears or keeping my interest covert and probably generating some sort of incidental feeling of insecurity related to this. Neither option appeals to me.
I’d like to have higher energy and better motivation (which might allow me to work on things with less willpower/energy expenditure), but those things seem to me to be more about trying out a wide variety of techniques and empirically determining what works.
Morale, and reducing the need for willpower / conscious effort, are things I’ve had success with using self-image changes, e.g. inspired by Naruto :) So...
… I’d say paying close attention to how you see yourself and your place in the world during times of low morale is definitely worth experimenting with. I’d actually be quite surprised if there aren’t variables at play there which, if changed, would cause changes in your morale.
Hah! It’s funny you should mention that! Liking Britney Spears was one of the first intentional changes I made to myself at the time I mentioned in the post when I was 16 and trying to be self-image-free. It worked; I realized I naturally quite liked most of her hits, and I always perk up when her music comes on the radio. It’s nice not to have to hate it :)
Good insight, thanks.