Well, as far as the anti depressants… did they clearly unambiguously show that you were to such an extent clinically depressed (rather than just saying “heh, he’s oppositional. We can’t be wrong, we can’t even be forced to consider his own opinion on its own merits, therefore it’s clearly a symptom of something”) to the extent forcing you (rather than giving you the choice) on them against your will would have been acceptable even under a strict standard?
She had the power, she had a goal. She was going to get what she wanted either through greater experience in the arts of influence or by finding out which doctor was the best candidate for a preferred ‘second opinion’.
The stated rationale, at least at the beginning, was that it was clearly not in my best interests to go off the ritalin, because keeping my grades up was just that important, and thus justified to take other measures to ensure that I kept taking it. I disagreed about the importance of the grades compared to the importance of learning to function without being drugged. Your (Psy-Kosh’s) ‘dramatically objectively worse’ qualifier isn’t clear enough to detangle this issue, because it doesn’t talk about what should be measured. If grades were the measure, I should have stayed on the ritalin and not objected to it strenuously in the first place: My grades did indeed drop dramatically when I went off it, as I expected them to. The same issue comes up with the antidepressants: My mother swears that I was easier to get along with while I was on them, and that they were therefore justified. (I can’t comment, because I don’t remember. D: ) If that isn’t an appropriate thing to measure, what is?
I wasn’t stating or proposing a specific standard. I don’t know exactly what it should be. But I don’t mean just grades. I mean something that could reasonably be described as “a situation that is bad objectively, like obvious physical illnesses, and the situation being so bad that it would actually justify forcibly hacking someone’s mind against their will”
ie, that’s more of the spirit of what I had in mind. I don’t know how to make that explicit sufficiently to have a starting point for a legal standard.
If that isn’t an appropriate thing to measure, what is?
The mass of each pill of SSRI as you steadily taper off your dose. ;)
You start the process only after you have successfully convinced your oppressor that you have submitted to their will. You then take whatever measures necessary to convince them that you are going along with their plan and do whatever you can to thwart it, within the limits of what you think you can get away with. In this case it is fairly difficult to ensure that a victim has swallowed a tablet without intrusive physical intervention.
Disagreement, argument, defiance and even ‘oppositional’ behaviours, undesirable as they seem at first glance, are actually a something of a privilege that you are granting. In the absence of bystanders whose allegiance could be manipulated these all imply that you trust them enough for honest engagement to be in your interests. You (you being a general hypothetical entity in related circumstances) don’t owe this kind of intimacy to anyone, particularly if you suspect their response will be to have you forcibly sedated!
There is a time and place for honest assertiveness. That time and place can be loosely described as ‘when it works’ (with a whole bucket load of caveat). In all other situations lie through your teeth, hide the pills near your cheek and spit the unsavoury incident and unwanted pill out of sight and mind at the earliest possible opportunity. Better yet, use the Prozac to spike her coffee. That’d almost certainly do more to enhance your personal wellbeing than taking it yourself.
It appears to be part of my innate nature to be nicer than that, ironically enough, though I did say ‘fuck it’ and discontinue the prozac on my own after they blatantly lied to me about what I’d have to do to get permission to go off of it.
Thing is, if they’d caught me, they could (according to the threats they were making) have taken even more drastic measures—it’s not exactly difficult for a parent to have a child locked up in horrible conditions, especially if the kid has a psych diagnosis or two.
Thing is, if they’d caught me, they could (according to the threats they were making) have taken even more drastic measures—it’s not exactly difficult for a parent to have a child locked up in horrible conditions, especially if the kid has a psych diagnosis or two.
Ouch, yes, I very nearly brought up that ‘Therapy’ earlier but refrained because the very topic makes my blood boil.
I go more ‘flight’ than ‘fight’ over it, but either way, it’s part of the reality of being in that kind of situation, unfortunately, and it’s not rational to ignore it.
Well, as far as the anti depressants… did they clearly unambiguously show that you were to such an extent clinically depressed (rather than just saying “heh, he’s oppositional. We can’t be wrong, we can’t even be forced to consider his own opinion on its own merits, therefore it’s clearly a symptom of something”) to the extent forcing you (rather than giving you the choice) on them against your will would have been acceptable even under a strict standard?
She had the power, she had a goal. She was going to get what she wanted either through greater experience in the arts of influence or by finding out which doctor was the best candidate for a preferred ‘second opinion’.
What Wedrifid said. (And I’m female, by the way.)
The stated rationale, at least at the beginning, was that it was clearly not in my best interests to go off the ritalin, because keeping my grades up was just that important, and thus justified to take other measures to ensure that I kept taking it. I disagreed about the importance of the grades compared to the importance of learning to function without being drugged. Your (Psy-Kosh’s) ‘dramatically objectively worse’ qualifier isn’t clear enough to detangle this issue, because it doesn’t talk about what should be measured. If grades were the measure, I should have stayed on the ritalin and not objected to it strenuously in the first place: My grades did indeed drop dramatically when I went off it, as I expected them to. The same issue comes up with the antidepressants: My mother swears that I was easier to get along with while I was on them, and that they were therefore justified. (I can’t comment, because I don’t remember. D: ) If that isn’t an appropriate thing to measure, what is?
I wasn’t stating or proposing a specific standard. I don’t know exactly what it should be. But I don’t mean just grades. I mean something that could reasonably be described as “a situation that is bad objectively, like obvious physical illnesses, and the situation being so bad that it would actually justify forcibly hacking someone’s mind against their will”
ie, that’s more of the spirit of what I had in mind. I don’t know how to make that explicit sufficiently to have a starting point for a legal standard.
The mass of each pill of SSRI as you steadily taper off your dose. ;)
You start the process only after you have successfully convinced your oppressor that you have submitted to their will. You then take whatever measures necessary to convince them that you are going along with their plan and do whatever you can to thwart it, within the limits of what you think you can get away with. In this case it is fairly difficult to ensure that a victim has swallowed a tablet without intrusive physical intervention.
Disagreement, argument, defiance and even ‘oppositional’ behaviours, undesirable as they seem at first glance, are actually a something of a privilege that you are granting. In the absence of bystanders whose allegiance could be manipulated these all imply that you trust them enough for honest engagement to be in your interests. You (you being a general hypothetical entity in related circumstances) don’t owe this kind of intimacy to anyone, particularly if you suspect their response will be to have you forcibly sedated!
There is a time and place for honest assertiveness. That time and place can be loosely described as ‘when it works’ (with a whole bucket load of caveat). In all other situations lie through your teeth, hide the pills near your cheek and spit the unsavoury incident and unwanted pill out of sight and mind at the earliest possible opportunity. Better yet, use the Prozac to spike her coffee. That’d almost certainly do more to enhance your personal wellbeing than taking it yourself.
It appears to be part of my innate nature to be nicer than that, ironically enough, though I did say ‘fuck it’ and discontinue the prozac on my own after they blatantly lied to me about what I’d have to do to get permission to go off of it.
Thing is, if they’d caught me, they could (according to the threats they were making) have taken even more drastic measures—it’s not exactly difficult for a parent to have a child locked up in horrible conditions, especially if the kid has a psych diagnosis or two.
Ouch, yes, I very nearly brought up that ‘Therapy’ earlier but refrained because the very topic makes my blood boil.
I go more ‘flight’ than ‘fight’ over it, but either way, it’s part of the reality of being in that kind of situation, unfortunately, and it’s not rational to ignore it.