The total payoff—the combined benefits both players receive
Sigh. So you’re looking at combined benefits, aka “utility-analog of both parties”, aka utils, about which you just said “of course you can’t combine the utils”.
Okay. This conversation? This is a PD.
Bullshit.
Instead of handwaving at each other, let’s define PD and then see what qualifies. I can start.
I’ll generalize PD—since we’re talking about social issues—to multiple agents (and call it GPD).
So, a prisoner’s dilemma is a particular situation that is characterized by the following:
Multiple agents (2 or more) have to make a particular choice after which they receive the payoffs.
All agents know they are in the GPD. There are no marks, patsies, or innocent bystanders.
All agents have to make a choice between the two alternatives, conventionally called cooperate (C) or defect (D). They have to make a choice—not making a choice is not an option, and neither is picking E. In some situations it doesn’t matter (when D is defined as not-C), in some it does.
All agents make their choice without knowing what other agents chose and before anyone receives the payoff.
For each agent the payoff from choosing D is known and fixed: decisions of other agents do not change it. In other words, if any agent chooses D, he is guaranteed to receive the D payoff known to him.
For each agent the payoff from choosing C varies depending on the decisions of other agents. If many other agents also chose C, the C payoff is high, more than D. If only a few other agents chose C, the C payoff is low, less than D (this is the generalization to multiple agents).
Given this definition, on which basis, more or less, I am arguing in this subthread, this conversation (or any single comment) is nowhere near a PD. Nor are the great majority of real-life situations calling for a choice.
Sigh. So you’re looking at combined benefits, aka “utility-analog of both parties”, aka utils, about which you just said “of course you can’t combine the utils”.
Bullshit.
Instead of handwaving at each other, let’s define PD and then see what qualifies. I can start.
I’ll generalize PD—since we’re talking about social issues—to multiple agents (and call it GPD).
So, a prisoner’s dilemma is a particular situation that is characterized by the following:
Multiple agents (2 or more) have to make a particular choice after which they receive the payoffs.
All agents know they are in the GPD. There are no marks, patsies, or innocent bystanders.
All agents have to make a choice between the two alternatives, conventionally called cooperate (C) or defect (D). They have to make a choice—not making a choice is not an option, and neither is picking E. In some situations it doesn’t matter (when D is defined as not-C), in some it does.
All agents make their choice without knowing what other agents chose and before anyone receives the payoff.
For each agent the payoff from choosing D is known and fixed: decisions of other agents do not change it. In other words, if any agent chooses D, he is guaranteed to receive the D payoff known to him.
For each agent the payoff from choosing C varies depending on the decisions of other agents. If many other agents also chose C, the C payoff is high, more than D. If only a few other agents chose C, the C payoff is low, less than D (this is the generalization to multiple agents).
Given this definition, on which basis, more or less, I am arguing in this subthread, this conversation (or any single comment) is nowhere near a PD. Nor are the great majority of real-life situations calling for a choice.