Free will is basically asking about the cause of our actions and thoughts. The cause of our neurons firing. The cause of how the atoms and quarks in our brains move around.
To know that X causes the atoms in our brain to move a certain way, we’d have to know that every time X happens, the atoms in our brain would move in that specific way. The problem is that we would have to see into the future. We’d have to see what results from X in every future instance of X. We don’t have that information. All we have are our past and current experiences, that we use to induce what will happen in the future. (This is nothing new, just the induction fallacy.)
So, it seems that we can’t determine causes. Maybe somehow if our understanding of physics allows us to deconstruct time and see the future, we might be able to determine causes, but right now we can’t do that, so it seems that we can’t determine causes.
If we can’t determine causes, we can’t know whether or not we have free will.
Let’s consider two possibilities: 1) our “consciousness” causes the atoms in our brain to move in certain ways 2) “physics” causes the atoms to move the way they do
Regardless of whether (1) or (2) is correct, it wouldn’t lead to any different experiences for us. We’d still act and think the way we do, and we’d still psychologically feel like we’re in control of our thoughts and actions. I think this is what Eliezer is saying; that the question of free will is pointless because regardless of what the answer is, it won’t lead us to different experiences.
My objection—just because we don’t know the true cause doesn’t mean we can’t. Knowing the true cause would (at the very least) be interesting. For that reason, I don’t think the question of free will is “meaningless”. I know it doesn’t seem like we could know the true cause, but it’s tough to predict what we might know, say, a million years from now.
Objection to myself: I’m not sure exactly what I mean by consciousness. If “consciousness” doesn’t “mean something”, then the question is basically a matter of physics and what laws of physics govern the movement of the atoms in our brains, which isn’t as interesting, at least to me.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure what it would mean for “consciousness” to be the cause of the atoms in our brains moving. As far as our experiences and ability to measure things goes, it probably doesn’t “mean” anything. I guess that that is the point Eliezer is making.
I’m still notably confused, but I’m definitely getting closer. I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me understand why it doesn’t mean anything for “consciousness” to cause the atoms in our brains to move.
Free will is basically asking about the cause of our actions and thoughts. The cause of our neurons firing. The cause of how the atoms and quarks in our brains move around.
To know that X causes the atoms in our brain to move a certain way, we’d have to know that every time X happens, the atoms in our brain would move in that specific way. The problem is that we would have to see into the future. We’d have to see what results from X in every future instance of X. We don’t have that information. All we have are our past and current experiences, that we use to induce what will happen in the future. (This is nothing new, just the induction fallacy.)
So, it seems that we can’t determine causes. Maybe somehow if our understanding of physics allows us to deconstruct time and see the future, we might be able to determine causes, but right now we can’t do that, so it seems that we can’t determine causes.
If we can’t determine causes, we can’t know whether or not we have free will.
Let’s consider two possibilities:
1) our “consciousness” causes the atoms in our brain to move in certain ways
2) “physics” causes the atoms to move the way they do
Regardless of whether (1) or (2) is correct, it wouldn’t lead to any different experiences for us. We’d still act and think the way we do, and we’d still psychologically feel like we’re in control of our thoughts and actions. I think this is what Eliezer is saying; that the question of free will is pointless because regardless of what the answer is, it won’t lead us to different experiences.
My objection—just because we don’t know the true cause doesn’t mean we can’t. Knowing the true cause would (at the very least) be interesting. For that reason, I don’t think the question of free will is “meaningless”. I know it doesn’t seem like we could know the true cause, but it’s tough to predict what we might know, say, a million years from now.
Objection to myself: I’m not sure exactly what I mean by consciousness. If “consciousness” doesn’t “mean something”, then the question is basically a matter of physics and what laws of physics govern the movement of the atoms in our brains, which isn’t as interesting, at least to me.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure what it would mean for “consciousness” to be the cause of the atoms in our brains moving. As far as our experiences and ability to measure things goes, it probably doesn’t “mean” anything. I guess that that is the point Eliezer is making.
I’m still notably confused, but I’m definitely getting closer. I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me understand why it doesn’t mean anything for “consciousness” to cause the atoms in our brains to move.