I’m pretty convinced at this point that qualia comes from systems with a certain level of complexity, or maybe it comes from life. I’m very skeptical of the idea that only humans experience things. I think it’s highly likely that ants have inner lives.
Where you lose me is the assumption that all insects are suffering. I expect that, like people, most of them are going about their day to day. Their lives have meaning to them. Yes, there are a lot being injured right now, but the VAST majority are because they were just going about their day. Life is hard.
To me, your argument breaks down when you take it further. What about the single-cell organisms? They also respond to negative stimulus. I don’t know if the question of suffering of single-cell organisms has really been studied, but even multicellular creatures are essentially colonies of cells of multiple types and even species. Wikipedia says there are about 3x10^13 human cells in a human body, with about that many bacterial cells. Should we be horrified at the desiccation and death of skin cells? The countless bacterial cell you are likely murdering every moment of your life as your cells fend off infection, and so too the cells of yours that die in the effort? Of cancer cells, who just want to live?
These things are a part of nature. Intervening is just picking sides out of preference. It’s okay to have preferences, but they aren’t moral questions.
To bring it back around, I’m with you on preserving habitat, and respecting life. When I find insects in my house that I can catch and release outside, I do. I think we need better regulation on wide-scale insecticide use.
When a mosquito bites me, I’m going to kill it. If they’re living in my home, we’re at war.
Hey, thanks for the interesting perspective. 👋
I think it’s easy to lose perspective when you multiply a really big number by a really small number.
Ustice from the past, I disagree about one point. The preferences you were referring to not being moral questions is wrong. Obviously one could only include humans, or a subset of humans. Including humans in “it’s just nature” is obviously immoral.
The choice of where to draw the line is very much a moral question. At least all humans is a pretty good Schelling point, but after that it there are only a few major points before things get murky, and rational moral minds can disagree.
I don’t believe you meant to be dismissive, but your argument was, and that’s not fair. I apologize on his behalf.
I’m pretty convinced at this point that qualia comes from systems with a certain level of complexity, or maybe it comes from life. I’m very skeptical of the idea that only humans experience things. I think it’s highly likely that ants have inner lives.
Where you lose me is the assumption that all insects are suffering. I expect that, like people, most of them are going about their day to day. Their lives have meaning to them. Yes, there are a lot being injured right now, but the VAST majority are because they were just going about their day. Life is hard.
To me, your argument breaks down when you take it further. What about the single-cell organisms? They also respond to negative stimulus. I don’t know if the question of suffering of single-cell organisms has really been studied, but even multicellular creatures are essentially colonies of cells of multiple types and even species. Wikipedia says there are about 3x10^13 human cells in a human body, with about that many bacterial cells. Should we be horrified at the desiccation and death of skin cells? The countless bacterial cell you are likely murdering every moment of your life as your cells fend off infection, and so too the cells of yours that die in the effort? Of cancer cells, who just want to live?
These things are a part of nature. Intervening is just picking sides out of preference. It’s okay to have preferences, but they aren’t moral questions.
To bring it back around, I’m with you on preserving habitat, and respecting life. When I find insects in my house that I can catch and release outside, I do. I think we need better regulation on wide-scale insecticide use.
When a mosquito bites me, I’m going to kill it. If they’re living in my home, we’re at war.
Hey, thanks for the interesting perspective. 👋
I think it’s easy to lose perspective when you multiply a really big number by a really small number.
Ustice from the past, I disagree about one point. The preferences you were referring to not being moral questions is wrong. Obviously one could only include humans, or a subset of humans. Including humans in “it’s just nature” is obviously immoral.
The choice of where to draw the line is very much a moral question. At least all humans is a pretty good Schelling point, but after that it there are only a few major points before things get murky, and rational moral minds can disagree.
I don’t believe you meant to be dismissive, but your argument was, and that’s not fair. I apologize on his behalf.