You are changing the topic from “Does the movie support equality” to “does every single aspect of the movie support equality in every single way”.
All real categories of humans in the movie are equal, as illustrated by Princess Leia strangling Jabba the hut. A small woman is supposedly just as strong as a big male—a delusion so widely believed that we are seeing a disturbingly large number of attacks on large males by small women, often with predictable consequences.
The fact that nobility and royalty do not deserve to rule, though plausible enough, unlike Princes Leia strangling Jabba the Hut, produces a gigantic plot hole at the center of the movie.
Further, the real category of nobility and royalty are also equal, since they do not deserve to rule, and good nobles do not get to rule.
And people with midichlorians are unequal. If there were actual people with midichlorians, or if all people with midichlorians in the movie were white males, this would be politically unthinkable. Because there are no actual people with midichlorians, and because, quite implausibly, midichlorian possession is equally distributed among all races and species, it is permitted.
Compare and contrast with Shakespeare, who was able to take the politically incorrect position on the biggest real issues of his day, such as the existence of purgatory.
You are changing the topic from “Does the movie support equality” to “does every single aspect of the movie support equality in every single way”. All real categories of humans in the movie are equal, as illustrated by Princess Leia strangling Jabba the hut.
Jabba the Hutt is at least as fictional as the Force is, you know, and he’s not exactly a physically imposing presence; there’s no particular reason to conclude that that scene is physically improbable, and Leia takes a noncombatant role elsewhere by comparison with the men in the cast. But the weakness of that particular example aside, there’s very little in the films to support a reading as egalitarian.
To wit: the movie centers on a caste of magical warrior-monks whose powers are quite literally in the blood. There’s a titled princess (not an “elected queen” like Amidala, a bona fide hereditary ruler, albeit adopted) in the core cast, and that’s never presented as unwelcome or even remarkable. That princess, by the way, is the only woman in the original trilogy with more than a handful of lines, gets rescued twice, and otherwise mostly limits herself to providing guidance and moral support. There’s only one non-white guy in the original trilogy, and he’s painted as untrustworthy for a variety of reasons. Nonhuman characters are portrayed as stereotypical savages, Orientalist-style local color, or outright subservient: the only real exception is Yoda, and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to read him as a stereotypical shaman figure. Success is explicitly and repeatedly described as coming not from cleverness or effort, but by surrendering to the numinous forces of destiny.
The only thing that even approaches egalitarianism in the theme is the implicit preference for a republican form of government over an imperial, and I’m not inclined to give that much credit: the central conflict is at least as much about mysticism vs. modernism (in the guise of the regimented, technological Empire) as anything else, and that Empire’s pretty clearly a military dictatorship rather than a traditional aristocracy. You could read it as glorifying revolution, sure, but even that’s carefully constructed as a rebellion against new, illegitimate authority.
because, quite implausibly, midichlorian possession is equally distributed among all races and species
It would help if you did minimal research before making claims. Today’s homework excercise: Go to Wookiepedia and count how many species are listed who explicitly have no access to the Force. Hint: The answer is more than one.
I have no dog in your original fight with JoshuaZ et al, but I’m kind of curious about the Star Wars analysis specifically.
You say,
All real categories of humans in the movie are equal, as illustrated by Princess Leia strangling Jabba the hut.
What do you mean by “real categories of humans” ? There exist many sentient species in the Star Wars universe; and technically, none of them are exactly human, seeing as the movie takes place “long ago, in a galaxy far away”. Leia’s species are probably as close to human as you can get, but there are tons of others—Hutt, Torguta, Mandalorian, Jawa, those spiky Darth Maul guys… Many of these species can wield the Force, which makes them vastly more powerful than most others.
He means things like “women”, “men”, “blacks”, “whites”, “short people”, “tall people”—as opposed to “Jedis” (Starwars), “Numenoreans” (Lord of the Rings), “Wizards” (Harry Potter).
Let’s not make obvious fails of understanding here.
Pretty much, although I’d use less politically divisive before subtler. Writers have been using invented species, bloodlines, Differently Powered Individuals, and what have you as stand-ins for real-world marginalized groups for about as long as people have been writing speculative fiction, and they’re very much meant to be read as such: sometimes this gets distinctly unsubtle, as per the mutants in The Iron Dream.
The political focus varies, though; back in the day, this was traditionally used to bring up some relatively specific real-world issue that would be delicate to handle directly (as in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode “The Outcast)”). These days I think it’s more common to use the device to keep things general, in order to identify with a broad spectrum of causes.
The question seems confused. I’d ask you “better in what”? Better in being scientifically accurate? Better in averting offense? Better for the plot of any given story?
And if you mean “morally better”, do you really think that Tolkien having his stories portray Orcs (which he invented exactly because he wanted an inexhaustible supply of enemies against which we needed feel no moral qualm) as utterly foul creatures, isn’t any morally better than if he’d chosen a real-life group, e.g. African or Mongols, to play that exact role? Isn’t Harry Potter better that it has goblins in the role of greedy banker-types instead of e.g. Jews?
People won’t be motivated to commit hate-crimes against orcs or goblins, if orcs are portrayed as uniformly bad or goblins uniformly greedy in some story.
You are changing the topic from “Does the movie support equality” to “does every single aspect of the movie support equality in every single way”.
All real categories of humans in the movie are equal, as illustrated by Princess Leia strangling Jabba the hut. A small woman is supposedly just as strong as a big male—a delusion so widely believed that we are seeing a disturbingly large number of attacks on large males by small women, often with predictable consequences.
The fact that nobility and royalty do not deserve to rule, though plausible enough, unlike Princes Leia strangling Jabba the Hut, produces a gigantic plot hole at the center of the movie.
Further, the real category of nobility and royalty are also equal, since they do not deserve to rule, and good nobles do not get to rule.
And people with midichlorians are unequal. If there were actual people with midichlorians, or if all people with midichlorians in the movie were white males, this would be politically unthinkable. Because there are no actual people with midichlorians, and because, quite implausibly, midichlorian possession is equally distributed among all races and species, it is permitted.
Compare and contrast with Shakespeare, who was able to take the politically incorrect position on the biggest real issues of his day, such as the existence of purgatory.
Jabba the Hutt is at least as fictional as the Force is, you know, and he’s not exactly a physically imposing presence; there’s no particular reason to conclude that that scene is physically improbable, and Leia takes a noncombatant role elsewhere by comparison with the men in the cast. But the weakness of that particular example aside, there’s very little in the films to support a reading as egalitarian.
To wit: the movie centers on a caste of magical warrior-monks whose powers are quite literally in the blood. There’s a titled princess (not an “elected queen” like Amidala, a bona fide hereditary ruler, albeit adopted) in the core cast, and that’s never presented as unwelcome or even remarkable. That princess, by the way, is the only woman in the original trilogy with more than a handful of lines, gets rescued twice, and otherwise mostly limits herself to providing guidance and moral support. There’s only one non-white guy in the original trilogy, and he’s painted as untrustworthy for a variety of reasons. Nonhuman characters are portrayed as stereotypical savages, Orientalist-style local color, or outright subservient: the only real exception is Yoda, and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to read him as a stereotypical shaman figure. Success is explicitly and repeatedly described as coming not from cleverness or effort, but by surrendering to the numinous forces of destiny.
The only thing that even approaches egalitarianism in the theme is the implicit preference for a republican form of government over an imperial, and I’m not inclined to give that much credit: the central conflict is at least as much about mysticism vs. modernism (in the guise of the regimented, technological Empire) as anything else, and that Empire’s pretty clearly a military dictatorship rather than a traditional aristocracy. You could read it as glorifying revolution, sure, but even that’s carefully constructed as a rebellion against new, illegitimate authority.
It would help if you did minimal research before making claims. Today’s homework excercise: Go to Wookiepedia and count how many species are listed who explicitly have no access to the Force. Hint: The answer is more than one.
I have no dog in your original fight with JoshuaZ et al, but I’m kind of curious about the Star Wars analysis specifically.
You say,
What do you mean by “real categories of humans” ? There exist many sentient species in the Star Wars universe; and technically, none of them are exactly human, seeing as the movie takes place “long ago, in a galaxy far away”. Leia’s species are probably as close to human as you can get, but there are tons of others—Hutt, Torguta, Mandalorian, Jawa, those spiky Darth Maul guys… Many of these species can wield the Force, which makes them vastly more powerful than most others.
He means things like “women”, “men”, “blacks”, “whites”, “short people”, “tall people”—as opposed to “Jedis” (Starwars), “Numenoreans” (Lord of the Rings), “Wizards” (Harry Potter).
Let’s not make obvious fails of understanding here.
Ok, fair enough, but isn’t Fantastic Racism (or sexism or what have you) just a subtler version of regular racism ? It’s not really that much better.
Pretty much, although I’d use less politically divisive before subtler. Writers have been using invented species, bloodlines, Differently Powered Individuals, and what have you as stand-ins for real-world marginalized groups for about as long as people have been writing speculative fiction, and they’re very much meant to be read as such: sometimes this gets distinctly unsubtle, as per the mutants in The Iron Dream.
The political focus varies, though; back in the day, this was traditionally used to bring up some relatively specific real-world issue that would be delicate to handle directly (as in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode “The Outcast)”). These days I think it’s more common to use the device to keep things general, in order to identify with a broad spectrum of causes.
The question seems confused. I’d ask you “better in what”? Better in being scientifically accurate? Better in averting offense? Better for the plot of any given story?
And if you mean “morally better”, do you really think that Tolkien having his stories portray Orcs (which he invented exactly because he wanted an inexhaustible supply of enemies against which we needed feel no moral qualm) as utterly foul creatures, isn’t any morally better than if he’d chosen a real-life group, e.g. African or Mongols, to play that exact role? Isn’t Harry Potter better that it has goblins in the role of greedy banker-types instead of e.g. Jews?
People won’t be motivated to commit hate-crimes against orcs or goblins, if orcs are portrayed as uniformly bad or goblins uniformly greedy in some story.