I agree with you on the technicality-it’s a weird use of the word “save”. Philosophically I agree with the original poster. As an individual who can suffer, I would prefer to not exist (edit: not have existed in the first place) than to live my life in a factory farm.
Whoa. I didn’t say that if I was living in factory farm, I would prefer to be killed. I might, and I might seek suicide, but that’s a hard choice, because the will-to-live-above-all-else exists and is quite strong (for good evolutionary reasons). Also, approaching death is scary = suffering. So no, I wouldn’t make that choice for another person, if I couldn’t communicate with them and ask. If I could ask them, I’m not sure.
(This is a situation I’ve imagined myself in, i.e. if I have a patient someday who is able to convince me that they have made a rational decision that they want to commit assisted suicide. I can’t model myself well enough to know what I’d do in that situation either.)
An individual that doesn’t exist in the first place, i.e. because of better birth control or because fewer animals are farmed for food, doesn’t exist to have to make a choice; at least that’s how I see it. I could conceive of people thinking they’re philosophically the same situation, but I strongly think that they aren’t.
I didn’t say that if I was living in factory farm, I would prefer to be killed.
To quote you to you, “I would prefer to not exist than to live my life in a factory farm.”
That’s a pretty unambiguous statement. Maybe you want to modify it?
EDIT: Ah, I see you modified it. But that’s not really a choice: the past is fixed. It’s only an expression of a wish that the past were different. And, of course, it it were realized there would be no you to make the choice...
An agent can have a preference to never have existed, operationalized as a tendency to act in such a way that agents that act that way are less likely to come into existence; e.g., if agent A creates agent B because A believes B will do X, and if B does not want to have existed, then B could refrain from doing X for that reason.
I went back and edited it. I personally thought it was ambiguous tending in the direction of not exist=never have existed in the first place, as opposed to ‘stop existing’. Illusion of transparency, etc.
As opposed to what? I can’t not make a choice. I can either buy meat, and choose for them to live a painful existence, or not buy meat, and choose for them not to. It’s not as if I can offer them the opportunity to go back in time and kill their own grandfathers and make the choice for themselves.
A simple example of making a choice for others is making meat consumption illegal.
However this particular question was based on the Swimmer’s question before editing which I understood as preferring suicide to living in a factory farm. If so, making a choice for other implies killing the other (animal) so that it does not continue to suffer on the farm.
I agree with you on the technicality-it’s a weird use of the word “save”. Philosophically I agree with the original poster. As an individual who can suffer, I would prefer to not exist (edit: not have existed in the first place) than to live my life in a factory farm.
Are you willing to make that choice for others?
If you see a creature living in a factory farm and have an opportunity to save it from the rest of its existence, will you kill it?
Whoa. I didn’t say that if I was living in factory farm, I would prefer to be killed. I might, and I might seek suicide, but that’s a hard choice, because the will-to-live-above-all-else exists and is quite strong (for good evolutionary reasons). Also, approaching death is scary = suffering. So no, I wouldn’t make that choice for another person, if I couldn’t communicate with them and ask. If I could ask them, I’m not sure.
(This is a situation I’ve imagined myself in, i.e. if I have a patient someday who is able to convince me that they have made a rational decision that they want to commit assisted suicide. I can’t model myself well enough to know what I’d do in that situation either.)
An individual that doesn’t exist in the first place, i.e. because of better birth control or because fewer animals are farmed for food, doesn’t exist to have to make a choice; at least that’s how I see it. I could conceive of people thinking they’re philosophically the same situation, but I strongly think that they aren’t.
To quote you to you, “I would prefer to not exist than to live my life in a factory farm.”
That’s a pretty unambiguous statement. Maybe you want to modify it?
EDIT: Ah, I see you modified it. But that’s not really a choice: the past is fixed. It’s only an expression of a wish that the past were different. And, of course, it it were realized there would be no you to make the choice...
An agent can have a preference to never have existed, operationalized as a tendency to act in such a way that agents that act that way are less likely to come into existence; e.g., if agent A creates agent B because A believes B will do X, and if B does not want to have existed, then B could refrain from doing X for that reason.
I went back and edited it. I personally thought it was ambiguous tending in the direction of not exist=never have existed in the first place, as opposed to ‘stop existing’. Illusion of transparency, etc.
As opposed to what? I can’t not make a choice. I can either buy meat, and choose for them to live a painful existence, or not buy meat, and choose for them not to. It’s not as if I can offer them the opportunity to go back in time and kill their own grandfathers and make the choice for themselves.
A simple example of making a choice for others is making meat consumption illegal.
However this particular question was based on the Swimmer’s question before editing which I understood as preferring suicide to living in a factory farm. If so, making a choice for other implies killing the other (animal) so that it does not continue to suffer on the farm.
I’m fine with euthanasia. I don’t think failing to eat meat causes it, though.