You and I have had several conversations and each time I formed the impression that you were not making enough effort to explain yourself. You are apparently a very smart person, and you seem to think that this means that you are a good communicator. It does not. In my opinion, you are one of the worst communicators here. You tend to be terse to the point of incomprehensibility. You tend to seize upon interpretations of what other people say that can be both bizarre and unshakable. Conversing with you is simply no fun.
That’s quite interesting. I rarely have an issue understanding Vladimir. And when I do, a few minutes of thought generally allows me to reconstruct what he is saying. On the other hand, I seem to find you to be a poor communicator not in communicating your ideas but in understanding what other people are trying to say. So I have to wonder how much of this is on your end rather than his end. Moreover, even if that’s the not situation, it would seem highly probable to me that some people will have naturally different styles and modes of communication, and will perceive people who use similar modes as being good communicators and perceive people who use very different modes as being poor communicators. So it may simply be that Vladimir and I are of similar modes and you are of a different mode. I’m not completely sure how to test this sort of hypothesis. If it is correct, I’d expect LWians to clump with opinions about how good various people are at communicating. But that could happen for other reasons as well such as social reasons. So it might be better to test whether given anonymized prose from different LWians whether that shows LWians clumping in their evaluations.
Thank you for this feedback. I had expected to receive something of the sort from VN, but if it was encoded in his last paragraph, I have yet to decypher it.
I seem to find you to be a poor communicator not in communicating your ideas but in understanding what other people are trying to say. So I have to wonder how much of this is on your end rather than his end.
It certainly felt like at least some of the problem was on my end yesterday, particularly when AdeleneDawner apparently responded meaningfully to the VN paragraph which I had been unable to parse. The thing is, while I was able to understand her sentences, and how they were responses to VN’s sentences, and hence at least something of what VN apparently meant, I still have no understanding of how any of it is relevant in the context of the conversation VN and I were having.
I was missing some piece of context, which VN was apparently assuming would be common knowledge. It may be because I don’t yet understand the local jargon. I’ve only read maybe 2⁄3 of the sequences and find myself in sympathy with only a fraction of what I have read.
some people will have naturally different styles and modes of communication, and will perceive people who use similar modes as being good communicators and perceive people who use very different modes as being poor communicators.
A good observation. My calling Vladimir a poor communicator is an instance of mind-projection. He is not objectively poor at communicating—only poor at communicating with me.
I’m not completely sure how to test this sort of hypothesis. If it is correct, I’d expect LWians to clump with opinions about how good various people are at communicating. But that could happen for other reasons as well such as social reasons. So it might be better to test whether given anonymized prose from different LWians whether that shows LWians clumping in their evaluations.
Might be interesting to collect the data and find the clusters. I’m sure it is easiest to communicate with those who are at the least cognitive distance. And still relatively easy at some distance as long as you can accurately locate your interlocutor in cognitive space. The problems usually arise when both parties are confused about where the other is “coming from”. But do not notice that they are confused. Or do not announce that they have noticed.
You said about Vladimir:
That’s quite interesting. I rarely have an issue understanding Vladimir. And when I do, a few minutes of thought generally allows me to reconstruct what he is saying. On the other hand, I seem to find you to be a poor communicator not in communicating your ideas but in understanding what other people are trying to say. So I have to wonder how much of this is on your end rather than his end. Moreover, even if that’s the not situation, it would seem highly probable to me that some people will have naturally different styles and modes of communication, and will perceive people who use similar modes as being good communicators and perceive people who use very different modes as being poor communicators. So it may simply be that Vladimir and I are of similar modes and you are of a different mode. I’m not completely sure how to test this sort of hypothesis. If it is correct, I’d expect LWians to clump with opinions about how good various people are at communicating. But that could happen for other reasons as well such as social reasons. So it might be better to test whether given anonymized prose from different LWians whether that shows LWians clumping in their evaluations.
Thank you for this feedback. I had expected to receive something of the sort from VN, but if it was encoded in his last paragraph, I have yet to decypher it.
It certainly felt like at least some of the problem was on my end yesterday, particularly when AdeleneDawner apparently responded meaningfully to the VN paragraph which I had been unable to parse. The thing is, while I was able to understand her sentences, and how they were responses to VN’s sentences, and hence at least something of what VN apparently meant, I still have no understanding of how any of it is relevant in the context of the conversation VN and I were having.
I was missing some piece of context, which VN was apparently assuming would be common knowledge. It may be because I don’t yet understand the local jargon. I’ve only read maybe 2⁄3 of the sequences and find myself in sympathy with only a fraction of what I have read.
A good observation. My calling Vladimir a poor communicator is an instance of mind-projection. He is not objectively poor at communicating—only poor at communicating with me.
Might be interesting to collect the data and find the clusters. I’m sure it is easiest to communicate with those who are at the least cognitive distance. And still relatively easy at some distance as long as you can accurately locate your interlocutor in cognitive space. The problems usually arise when both parties are confused about where the other is “coming from”. But do not notice that they are confused. Or do not announce that they have noticed.