On New Year’s Eve this year, I made a spontaneous resolution to go vegetarian. It wasn’t exactly a well-thought out rational decision; I mainly just wanted to see what it was like and if I could do it. I never really liked the cruelty argument, probably because that would entail coming to face with the fact that I was responsible for quite a bit of that cruelty. Mainly, I was interested in health benefits, and figured a good way to test those would be to become my own guinea pig. Ten days into the new year, I’ve only eaten meat twice (I had sushi with my brother on his birthday, and one night I was slightly intoxicated, and really wanted a bacon cheeseburger.), and it has been surprisingly easy. I still usually eat an egg sandwich in the morning for some meat-substitute protein and take some vitamin supplements until I can figure out enough recipes and techniques for meeting my nutritional requirements without. I also don’t plan on turning my nose at my aunt’s turkey on Thanksgiving or my dad’s barbecue ribs on Independence Day, but if I could get meat consumption down to once or twice a month, it would be, I feel, a big improvement.
Anyways, the reason that I think I’m going to stick with it is that it helps me get in in touch with my body and its nutritional needs. I guess it’s really more of a sub-benefit of the health argument, but even if I fell off the vegetarian wagon, I’d be better able to know exactly what my body needs, and follow through on another diet. I know for instance, when I need more protein. Also I now get the most unusual feeling, a craving for salad.
I really would like to know from other vegetarians what drove you to become one. What arguments did you find most persuasive? Most of the vegetarians I know don’t do it for strictly rational reasons. A coworker of mine was raised by hippie parents and never knew any other way. My cousin has been a vegetarian since around age seven when she realized meat was animals. Some other friends of mine became vegetarians as adolescents as a way of asserting their own individual identity. I want to know about some cases of people being persuaded purely by rational arguments.
Most of the vegetarians I know don’t do it for strictly rational reasons.
Hi TheRev. I became vegetarian at the age of 20. In my case, the conversion wasn’t accompanied by any emotion, and was the result of rational reflection: I just concluded that eating meat caused much unnecessary suffering to other sentient beings. There is of course a selection bias, but most of the vegetarians I know (including many folks at 80,000 Hours, my current employer) have become vegetarians for similar reasons. Here’s a relevant comment by Carl Shulman:
I’d say that vegetarians adopt their views for very different reasons The ‘spiritual but not religious’ types do it because of high empathy/agreeableness, they like animals (empathize with pets, see a slaughterhouse, and you’re halfway there). On the other hand, I know ridiculously intelligent rationalists who are driven to it by their intellects.
Highly intelligent people may be aware of the much greater efficiency of plant food vs grain-fed meat: depending on the animal, this saves 50-80% of the inputs. This lowers the cost of food on world markets, and makes it easier for the 3rd world poor to afford, as well as generally improving global allocation of resources.
Very intelligent people are more likely to seek consistency in their ethical views: mammals and birds clearly can suffer pain and are brutalized using modern farming techniques (beaks burned, kept in such tight quarters that they peck each other to death otherwise, etc). Thus, if you’re going to oppose killing or torturing human newborns, or severely disabled humans, then logically you should seek to reduce animal suffering.
Okay, I realize I’m pretty late for a reply to this post, but anyway: Yes, I did try to make a rational decision about my diet. In my case that was a step to being a vegan, but I don’t think that’s very relevant in this context.
I’m surprised no one else commented on this, but maybe that’s due to other reasons than lack of people who decide on their diet using rational thinking.
About 2 years ago, I heard of a book called “Eating animals” by Jonathan S. Foer and felt that this might be an okay source to get some insight in a subject I didn’t know much about; the live of farm animals. The book provided a lot of insights and sources and the author seemed to try being as unbiased as possible, while giving a very close insight in how animals live under different farming conditions. I reacted very emotionally to the book. So I guess my decision wasn’t completely rational, but I do think the arguments are watertight if you look at factory farming and your premises are the same as mine (as in, definition of suffering, whether suffering (of animals) should be diminished, …). I did make a conscious effort to decide rationally.
Actually the author was in favor of becoming a vegetarian (which I was already, for more vague reasons, when I read the book) but from the arguments alone I immediately thought going vegan was the best option. It was a significant hurdle to go from that thought to being a vegan in practice, with thoughts like “But I like [unvegan food option]!” “Me a vegan? I never associated with that label” “Won’t I be a pain for other people to live around?”.
Anyway: Feeling the appropriate emotion about the facts doesn’t make a decision less rational. I am a very empathic person and that made it easier for me to stay with the choice. Two other people I know switched to a vegan diet after I spoke to them, both involved with rational thinking. So that would make three.
On New Year’s Eve this year, I made a spontaneous resolution to go vegetarian. It wasn’t exactly a well-thought out rational decision; I mainly just wanted to see what it was like and if I could do it. I never really liked the cruelty argument, probably because that would entail coming to face with the fact that I was responsible for quite a bit of that cruelty. Mainly, I was interested in health benefits, and figured a good way to test those would be to become my own guinea pig. Ten days into the new year, I’ve only eaten meat twice (I had sushi with my brother on his birthday, and one night I was slightly intoxicated, and really wanted a bacon cheeseburger.), and it has been surprisingly easy. I still usually eat an egg sandwich in the morning for some meat-substitute protein and take some vitamin supplements until I can figure out enough recipes and techniques for meeting my nutritional requirements without. I also don’t plan on turning my nose at my aunt’s turkey on Thanksgiving or my dad’s barbecue ribs on Independence Day, but if I could get meat consumption down to once or twice a month, it would be, I feel, a big improvement.
Anyways, the reason that I think I’m going to stick with it is that it helps me get in in touch with my body and its nutritional needs. I guess it’s really more of a sub-benefit of the health argument, but even if I fell off the vegetarian wagon, I’d be better able to know exactly what my body needs, and follow through on another diet. I know for instance, when I need more protein. Also I now get the most unusual feeling, a craving for salad.
I really would like to know from other vegetarians what drove you to become one. What arguments did you find most persuasive? Most of the vegetarians I know don’t do it for strictly rational reasons. A coworker of mine was raised by hippie parents and never knew any other way. My cousin has been a vegetarian since around age seven when she realized meat was animals. Some other friends of mine became vegetarians as adolescents as a way of asserting their own individual identity. I want to know about some cases of people being persuaded purely by rational arguments.
Hi TheRev. I became vegetarian at the age of 20. In my case, the conversion wasn’t accompanied by any emotion, and was the result of rational reflection: I just concluded that eating meat caused much unnecessary suffering to other sentient beings. There is of course a selection bias, but most of the vegetarians I know (including many folks at 80,000 Hours, my current employer) have become vegetarians for similar reasons. Here’s a relevant comment by Carl Shulman:
Okay, I realize I’m pretty late for a reply to this post, but anyway: Yes, I did try to make a rational decision about my diet. In my case that was a step to being a vegan, but I don’t think that’s very relevant in this context.
I’m surprised no one else commented on this, but maybe that’s due to other reasons than lack of people who decide on their diet using rational thinking.
About 2 years ago, I heard of a book called “Eating animals” by Jonathan S. Foer and felt that this might be an okay source to get some insight in a subject I didn’t know much about; the live of farm animals. The book provided a lot of insights and sources and the author seemed to try being as unbiased as possible, while giving a very close insight in how animals live under different farming conditions. I reacted very emotionally to the book. So I guess my decision wasn’t completely rational, but I do think the arguments are watertight if you look at factory farming and your premises are the same as mine (as in, definition of suffering, whether suffering (of animals) should be diminished, …). I did make a conscious effort to decide rationally.
Actually the author was in favor of becoming a vegetarian (which I was already, for more vague reasons, when I read the book) but from the arguments alone I immediately thought going vegan was the best option. It was a significant hurdle to go from that thought to being a vegan in practice, with thoughts like “But I like [unvegan food option]!” “Me a vegan? I never associated with that label” “Won’t I be a pain for other people to live around?”.
Anyway: Feeling the appropriate emotion about the facts doesn’t make a decision less rational. I am a very empathic person and that made it easier for me to stay with the choice. Two other people I know switched to a vegan diet after I spoke to them, both involved with rational thinking. So that would make three.
If you’re still eating pseudo-vegetarian diet and motivated by the cruelty argument, you should probably check out: http://www.utilitarian-essays.com/suffering-per-kg.html
and
http://measureofdoubt.com/2011/06/22/why-a-vegetarian-might-kill-more-animals-than-an-omnivore/
It seems eating eggs might be much worse than eating most kinds of meat (except fish).