I’ve deleted the post, so it doesn’t matter too much, but I’ll respond anyways:
This interpretation:
“Perhaps all you mean is that there is no separate pressure that drives systems towards higher entropy states; that the only forces acting on systems are the fundamental forces, and the increase of entropy is a consequence of those forces acting. In this attenuated sense, it is true that entropy increase is the product of the forces acting, just as it is true that natural selection is the product of the forces acting or that business cycles are the product of the forces acting. If this is your point, it is getting occluded by your presentation. Saying things like “expressions of entropy are expressions of particular forces” suggests that you’re making a different (and false) point.”
is correct, however I’ll disagree about what my point suggests, as I regard my construction as semantically identical to “entropy increase is the product of the forces acting”. There might be jargon I’m misusing, though, as I’m prone to that, so I have to concede there might be an implication I’m missing.
The point of my post was effectively that the law of entropy -isn’t- an independent law; my elaborate and failed constructions were attempts to demonstrate this by reversing the law and showing that all the other laws of physics would necessarily stop working.
For the second point, I’ll just repeat that I wasn’t discussing a Hamiltonian system. A closed solar system isn’t Hamiltonian unless you treat planets and the sun as point-masses, which I wasn’t doing; gravitational tides in the particulate composition of planets slowly rob the system of momentum and convert it to heat. The whole thing eventually collapses on itself. This is the kind of situation I was trying to discuss. I guess I failed on that count as well. Shrug
I’ve deleted the post, so it doesn’t matter too much, but I’ll respond anyways:
This interpretation:
“Perhaps all you mean is that there is no separate pressure that drives systems towards higher entropy states; that the only forces acting on systems are the fundamental forces, and the increase of entropy is a consequence of those forces acting. In this attenuated sense, it is true that entropy increase is the product of the forces acting, just as it is true that natural selection is the product of the forces acting or that business cycles are the product of the forces acting. If this is your point, it is getting occluded by your presentation. Saying things like “expressions of entropy are expressions of particular forces” suggests that you’re making a different (and false) point.”
is correct, however I’ll disagree about what my point suggests, as I regard my construction as semantically identical to “entropy increase is the product of the forces acting”. There might be jargon I’m misusing, though, as I’m prone to that, so I have to concede there might be an implication I’m missing.
The point of my post was effectively that the law of entropy -isn’t- an independent law; my elaborate and failed constructions were attempts to demonstrate this by reversing the law and showing that all the other laws of physics would necessarily stop working.
For the second point, I’ll just repeat that I wasn’t discussing a Hamiltonian system. A closed solar system isn’t Hamiltonian unless you treat planets and the sun as point-masses, which I wasn’t doing; gravitational tides in the particulate composition of planets slowly rob the system of momentum and convert it to heat. The whole thing eventually collapses on itself. This is the kind of situation I was trying to discuss. I guess I failed on that count as well. Shrug