You know, I was actually wondering that myself, and I’ve been thinking about it often since I posted that. But it certainly feels a lot less sexist to me. Something about that word ‘timid’ just bugged me. Maybe it’s just that it hits a bit close to home; I’m a woman, and I don’t drive, but I am a timid/cautious bicycle-rider...
It’s less offensive; that’s not the same as less sexist. The short-winded explanation of why is that it’s pretty much the same as saying men are incautious.
You may not use sexism as synonymous with offensive to women, but whether or not something is offensive to women is a significant part of how many people decide to apply the label sexist. Thus, there are reasonable definitions of sexist such that something that is less offensive to the average women is less sexist that an otherwise comparable statement.
I can find no google hits for this term so it would be helpful if you can explain what you mean. Meanwhile, I see no problem with pointing out that you’re trying to impose a normative definition that is not representative of how I routinely see the term used IRL.
It’s not a term, although I guess I can see where the confusion might arise.
Begging the question is assuming the thing you ought to be proving; I was using begging to refer shorthand to this fallacy. Using “sexist” to describe things that are offensive to women is begging the question for the connotation that is applied by the use of the word; it doesn’t particularly matter if that’s how the word is frequently used, if frequently used in that way, it’s frequently used in a dishonest and dark-artsy manner.
The connotations of the word sexism are driven by its meaning, not its use. If we want to use sexism to refer to things which are merely offensive to women, and not discriminatory against women, then sure, we can do that. But we cannot then pretend that the word has the same gravitas; it ceases to be usefully indicative of any sort of injustice, intellectual or otherwise, and becomes instead a signal for personal preference, a considerable drop in connotative power.
But we cannot then pretend that the word has the same gravitas
I was not making doing so. I was making a statement about how the word sexist is actually used, and to a lesser extent how it is practical to use sexist ( in my experience when people say they they’re concerned about offending women and/social consequences that are strongly correlated with offending women). I thought this was clear from the post and the general context of how LW usually handles discussions about language. Furthermore, I don’t believe that your op or first response make it remotely clear that you have any justification beyond attempting connotation begging of your own to enforce a narrow normative definition of a broadly used term.
I typed this much because I unilaterally ending conversations when the participants don’t yet understand each other to be rude. However, now that (I think) we understand what the other is saying I don’t think this conversation is worth continuing, and my lack of counterargument should not be taken as agreement(or disagreement) with what (I think) you are claiming.
The LW rules on discussions about language aren’t “Don’t have them.” They’re, essentially, to have arguments about language when they clarify things, not when they confuse things.
Incorrect. It’s just sexist in a different way. Just because sexism is more acceptable doesn’t make it less sexist.
You know, I was actually wondering that myself, and I’ve been thinking about it often since I posted that. But it certainly feels a lot less sexist to me. Something about that word ‘timid’ just bugged me. Maybe it’s just that it hits a bit close to home; I’m a woman, and I don’t drive, but I am a timid/cautious bicycle-rider...
It’s less offensive; that’s not the same as less sexist. The short-winded explanation of why is that it’s pretty much the same as saying men are incautious.
I think it depends on how you’re defining sexist. In particular the later version seems less likely to be read as offensive by the average women.
Sexism isn’t that which is offensive to women.
You may not use sexism as synonymous with offensive to women, but whether or not something is offensive to women is a significant part of how many people decide to apply the label sexist. Thus, there are reasonable definitions of sexist such that something that is less offensive to the average women is less sexist that an otherwise comparable statement.
That is connotative begging and I will have no part in it, nor grant any leniency to it. It’s accidental fraud at best, dark arts at worst.
I can find no google hits for this term so it would be helpful if you can explain what you mean. Meanwhile, I see no problem with pointing out that you’re trying to impose a normative definition that is not representative of how I routinely see the term used IRL.
It’s not a term, although I guess I can see where the confusion might arise.
Begging the question is assuming the thing you ought to be proving; I was using begging to refer shorthand to this fallacy. Using “sexist” to describe things that are offensive to women is begging the question for the connotation that is applied by the use of the word; it doesn’t particularly matter if that’s how the word is frequently used, if frequently used in that way, it’s frequently used in a dishonest and dark-artsy manner.
The connotations of the word sexism are driven by its meaning, not its use. If we want to use sexism to refer to things which are merely offensive to women, and not discriminatory against women, then sure, we can do that. But we cannot then pretend that the word has the same gravitas; it ceases to be usefully indicative of any sort of injustice, intellectual or otherwise, and becomes instead a signal for personal preference, a considerable drop in connotative power.
Ok, that (kinda) clarifies things.
I was not making doing so. I was making a statement about how the word sexist is actually used, and to a lesser extent how it is practical to use sexist ( in my experience when people say they they’re concerned about offending women and/social consequences that are strongly correlated with offending women). I thought this was clear from the post and the general context of how LW usually handles discussions about language. Furthermore, I don’t believe that your op or first response make it remotely clear that you have any justification beyond attempting connotation begging of your own to enforce a narrow normative definition of a broadly used term. I typed this much because I unilaterally ending conversations when the participants don’t yet understand each other to be rude. However, now that (I think) we understand what the other is saying I don’t think this conversation is worth continuing, and my lack of counterargument should not be taken as agreement(or disagreement) with what (I think) you are claiming.
Sequentially, #11, #22, #23, #26, #30, #37.
And probably a few others.
The LW rules on discussions about language aren’t “Don’t have them.” They’re, essentially, to have arguments about language when they clarify things, not when they confuse things.