Yes yes yes yes yes. This still amazes me every time it happens.
It can also happen without the “winning.” That is, I’ve had experiences like: Sam: “A, because X.” Me: “Well… I dunno. I mean, I’ve experienced X, sure, and I agree that X is evidence of A. But I’ve also experienced Y and Z, which seem to me to be evidence of B. And if I take (X and Y and Z) all together, (B and NOT A) seems much more plausible than (B and A).” Sam: “I still think A.” Me: “Well, I agree that (X and Y and Z and A and B) is not absurdly improbable, I just think it’s less likely than (X and Y and Z and not-A and B). So you might be right.” (wait a while) Sam: “Not-A, because B.”
And I know for certain that I’ve been Sam in exchanges like this as well. Worse, I know that in some cases I toggle. This is embarrassing, but it is what it is.
And I know for certain that I’ve been Sam in exchanges like this as well. Worse, I know that in some cases I toggle. This is embarrassing, but it is what it is.
How do you know? Have people told you this? I’d be interested to hear about a toggling situation.
I guess in some cases people know they’ve changed their mind, just not remember who exactly they had the crucial discussion with, so they don’t realize they’re admitting to you they were wrong. Most cases I remember can’t be explained this way because I’m probably the only one they’ve discussed these particular topics with.
In some cases you can sort of plant seeds in their minds and watch them grow over time without them noticing.
Yeah, essentially. I’ve been living with the same guy for 20 years, and when he reminds me that I’ve said “A” in the past I can remember having said A, despite believing that I’ve always believed not-A, and it seems more likely that I’m mis-remembering my own earlier beliefs than that I was lying to him at the time. Similarly, when he reminds me that he’s previously reminded me that I’ve said “A” in the past and I’ve had trouble believing that, I can remember that conversation, despite believing that I’ve always believed A.
Of course, it’s certainly possible that I’m just being suggestible and editing memories realtime, but it doesn’t feel that way. And if I’m that suggestible, which I might very well be, that makes it even more plausible that I’ve toggled. So I’m pretty confident that he’s right.
Yes yes yes yes yes.
This still amazes me every time it happens.
It can also happen without the “winning.” That is, I’ve had experiences like:
Sam: “A, because X.”
Me: “Well… I dunno. I mean, I’ve experienced X, sure, and I agree that X is evidence of A. But I’ve also experienced Y and Z, which seem to me to be evidence of B. And if I take (X and Y and Z) all together, (B and NOT A) seems much more plausible than (B and A).”
Sam: “I still think A.”
Me: “Well, I agree that (X and Y and Z and A and B) is not absurdly improbable, I just think it’s less likely than (X and Y and Z and not-A and B). So you might be right.”
(wait a while)
Sam: “Not-A, because B.”
And I know for certain that I’ve been Sam in exchanges like this as well. Worse, I know that in some cases I toggle. This is embarrassing, but it is what it is.
How do you know? Have people told you this? I’d be interested to hear about a toggling situation.
I guess in some cases people know they’ve changed their mind, just not remember who exactly they had the crucial discussion with, so they don’t realize they’re admitting to you they were wrong. Most cases I remember can’t be explained this way because I’m probably the only one they’ve discussed these particular topics with.
In some cases you can sort of plant seeds in their minds and watch them grow over time without them noticing.
Yeah, essentially. I’ve been living with the same guy for 20 years, and when he reminds me that I’ve said “A” in the past I can remember having said A, despite believing that I’ve always believed not-A, and it seems more likely that I’m mis-remembering my own earlier beliefs than that I was lying to him at the time. Similarly, when he reminds me that he’s previously reminded me that I’ve said “A” in the past and I’ve had trouble believing that, I can remember that conversation, despite believing that I’ve always believed A.
Of course, it’s certainly possible that I’m just being suggestible and editing memories realtime, but it doesn’t feel that way. And if I’m that suggestible, which I might very well be, that makes it even more plausible that I’ve toggled. So I’m pretty confident that he’s right.