You said “truth=opinion”, but to defend that you ask people not to do something true to you that isn’t a matter of opinion, but to “give you a statement that does not resolve to opinion”.
That’s false reasoning. You didn’t originally say “all true statements are produced by people’s opinions” which is trivially true according to some definition of “opinions”, as all statements people can make are by necessity produced by their minds.
But if e.g. you get in an accident and you lose your leg, nobody will have offered you an opinion, but nonetheless it’ll be true that you’ll be missing a leg. If you then say it’s only a matter of opinion that you’ll have lost your leg, I direct you to the well-known Monty Python sketch....
Your failure seems to arise from a very basic confusion between map and territory, where you think that because statements about reality derive from opinion, then reality itself must derive from opinion. That doesn’t follow at all.
In truth: F(x)-> y and Mind(Reality) → “Statements about Reality”. -- you didn’t disprove the existence of x, just by illustrating that all y can be mapped from x through a function F.
I’d phrase it as “truth is subjective,” but I agree in principle. Truth is a word for everyday talk, not for precise discourse. This may sound pretty off-the-wall, but stepping back for a second it should be no surprise that holding to everyday English phrasing would interfere with our efforts to speak precisely. I’ll put this more specifically below.
But if e.g. you get in an accident and you lose your leg, nobody will have offered you an opinion, but nonetheless it’ll be true that you’ll be missing a leg.
This is actually begging the question in that you tacitly assume objective truth by using the standard English phrasing. That there is such a thing as an objective truth is precisely the conclusion you hope to establish. Unfortunately English all but forces you to start by assuming it. Again, carrying over the habits of everyday talk into a precise discussion is a recipe for confusion. We’ll have to be a little more careful with phrasing to get at what’s going on.
I’d first point out that when you say, “you lose your leg,” you are speaking as if there is some omniscient narrator who knows “the objective facts of reality.” Parent’s point is exactly that there is no such omniscience. There are only individuals, including you and I, who have [subjective] experiences.
To get specific, we would have to identify who it is that witnesses the loss of Parent’s leg. If you had said, “e.g. you find that you get in an accident and that you lose your leg,” it would not be convincing to follow up with, “but nonetheless it’ll be true that you’ll be missing a leg.”
We could all have witnessed (what we experience as) Parent losing a leg. It will be “true” for us (everyday talk), but none among us is an omniscient narrator qualified to state any more than what we experienced. Nowhere is any objective truth to be found. If we were to call it an “objective truth,” we would simply be referencing the fact that all three of our experiences seem to match up. It would be at best an inter-subjective “truth,” but this “truth” is a lie to someone else who thinks they see Parent with both legs still attached. To avoid confusion, we had best call it a subjective report or something. Hence, while perhaps not ideal, “truth=opinion” is not too bad a way to put it after all.
You said “truth=opinion”, but to defend that you ask people not to do something true to you that isn’t a matter of opinion, but to “give you a statement that does not resolve to opinion”.
That’s false reasoning. You didn’t originally say “all true statements are produced by people’s opinions” which is trivially true according to some definition of “opinions”, as all statements people can make are by necessity produced by their minds.
But if e.g. you get in an accident and you lose your leg, nobody will have offered you an opinion, but nonetheless it’ll be true that you’ll be missing a leg. If you then say it’s only a matter of opinion that you’ll have lost your leg, I direct you to the well-known Monty Python sketch....
Your failure seems to arise from a very basic confusion between map and territory, where you think that because statements about reality derive from opinion, then reality itself must derive from opinion. That doesn’t follow at all. In truth: F(x)-> y and Mind(Reality) → “Statements about Reality”. -- you didn’t disprove the existence of x, just by illustrating that all y can be mapped from x through a function F.
I’d phrase it as “truth is subjective,” but I agree in principle. Truth is a word for everyday talk, not for precise discourse. This may sound pretty off-the-wall, but stepping back for a second it should be no surprise that holding to everyday English phrasing would interfere with our efforts to speak precisely. I’ll put this more specifically below.
This is actually begging the question in that you tacitly assume objective truth by using the standard English phrasing. That there is such a thing as an objective truth is precisely the conclusion you hope to establish. Unfortunately English all but forces you to start by assuming it. Again, carrying over the habits of everyday talk into a precise discussion is a recipe for confusion. We’ll have to be a little more careful with phrasing to get at what’s going on.
I’d first point out that when you say, “you lose your leg,” you are speaking as if there is some omniscient narrator who knows “the objective facts of reality.” Parent’s point is exactly that there is no such omniscience. There are only individuals, including you and I, who have [subjective] experiences.
To get specific, we would have to identify who it is that witnesses the loss of Parent’s leg. If you had said, “e.g. you find that you get in an accident and that you lose your leg,” it would not be convincing to follow up with, “but nonetheless it’ll be true that you’ll be missing a leg.”
We could all have witnessed (what we experience as) Parent losing a leg. It will be “true” for us (everyday talk), but none among us is an omniscient narrator qualified to state any more than what we experienced. Nowhere is any objective truth to be found. If we were to call it an “objective truth,” we would simply be referencing the fact that all three of our experiences seem to match up. It would be at best an inter-subjective “truth,” but this “truth” is a lie to someone else who thinks they see Parent with both legs still attached. To avoid confusion, we had best call it a subjective report or something. Hence, while perhaps not ideal, “truth=opinion” is not too bad a way to put it after all.