Ok, this is going to be exceedingly difficult to explain...
You say
I might burn down an oak tree without ever deciding to. Indeed, I might even watch the tree burning in consternation, never discovering that I was responsible.
In some sense, you burning down the tree still is the byproduct of your beliefs. Your beliefs create actions and limit actions. Any voluntary action stems out of either a belief in action or a belief in inaction. Because of some beliefs you have, you were wanton in your handling of fire or some other flammable product.
Perhaps a better example would be the Christian whose strong beliefs lead him to never discover that he or she was responsible for extreme denial and avoidance of the truth. He or she avoided the truth indirectly because of his or her strong beliefs, not out of conscious volition.
I certainly agree that my burning down a tree (intentionally or otherwise) is the byproduct of my mental states, which create and limit my actions. Which mental states it makes sense to call “beliefs”, with all of the connotations of that, is a trickier question, and not one I think it’s very useful for us to explore without a lot of groundwork being laid first.
Ok, this is going to be exceedingly difficult to explain...
You say
In some sense, you burning down the tree still is the byproduct of your beliefs. Your beliefs create actions and limit actions. Any voluntary action stems out of either a belief in action or a belief in inaction. Because of some beliefs you have, you were wanton in your handling of fire or some other flammable product.
Perhaps a better example would be the Christian whose strong beliefs lead him to never discover that he or she was responsible for extreme denial and avoidance of the truth. He or she avoided the truth indirectly because of his or her strong beliefs, not out of conscious volition.
I certainly agree that my burning down a tree (intentionally or otherwise) is the byproduct of my mental states, which create and limit my actions. Which mental states it makes sense to call “beliefs”, with all of the connotations of that, is a trickier question, and not one I think it’s very useful for us to explore without a lot of groundwork being laid first.
Well said. Would you want to try?
Not really… I’ve hit my quota for conversations that span metaphysical chasms for the moment.
Fair enough