My first thought is “too bad the bell rang” as it sounds like you were in the early stages of first Jhana. My second thought is how right you are to observe that most folks raised with a Christian (or even a Western background) do feel guilty having joy unless they have earned it. I think one of the most telling stories of what Jhana is like is the story that led the Buddha to pursue his own path that took him to enlightenment. ”The Memory of the Rose-Apple Tree During his quest for enlightenment, Siddhartha recalled a significant moment from his childhood. He remembered meditating under a rose-apple tree, an experience that brought him peace and clarity. This memory became pivotal in his spiritual journey. Inspired by this recollection, Siddhartha decided to meditate again, this time under the Bodhi tree. He believed that returning to a state of focused meditation, similar to his childhood experience, would help him discover the truth about existence. “ I think too, well worth mentioning, is that one does need to go on retreat (even if at home) and spend at least 2 hours a day in right meditation. Similarly, I don’t think you would believe someone who said they earned a medical degree spending 30 minutes a day studying. However, once the process of attaining Jhana is “caught” like riding a bicycle, it becomes effortless overall to attain Jhana again. I remember one of my teachers, Dr. Judson Brewer (now famous for his efforts to help smokers quit) told the story of how after 10 years of meditaion he went on a retreat in Nepal. While there, and lying down he slipped into Jhana and understood what the fuss was all about. He ran to to his teacher at the time, to express his excitement to which his teacher said, “Jud, I told you how to do this 10 years ago. I don’t think, if taught properly, Buddhism ever recommends isolating oneself from the world—maybe to first attain Jhana and plant oneself firmly on the path (attaining stream entry) because the Buddha himself spent the last 50 years of his life not only teaching the path but traveling extensively and helping to stop wars and giving counsel to kings and anyone in a position to make a difference who would listen. Long and short, don’t give up or rationalize away this profound accessible experience! Thanks for reading
Thank you, Mark! This is a very thoughtful comment for your first on LessWrong.
I agree that the joy-must-be-earned stance you point to as Christian / Western is common. The 2024 virtual Jhourney retreat didn’t give me a path to unlearning it or disproving it. I think doing so would be hard. I am not convinced it is worth trying right now, but if it is a thing where you learn it, and then can easily return, that makes it more compelling.
My first thought is “too bad the bell rang” as it sounds like you were in the early stages of first Jhana.
My second thought is how right you are to observe that most folks raised with a Christian (or even a Western background) do feel guilty having joy unless they have earned it. I think one of the most telling stories of what Jhana is like is the story that led the Buddha to pursue his own path that took him to enlightenment.
”The Memory of the Rose-Apple Tree
During his quest for enlightenment, Siddhartha recalled a significant moment from his childhood. He remembered meditating under a rose-apple tree, an experience that brought him peace and clarity. This memory became pivotal in his spiritual journey.
Inspired by this recollection, Siddhartha decided to meditate again, this time under the Bodhi tree. He believed that returning to a state of focused meditation, similar to his childhood experience, would help him discover the truth about existence. “
I think too, well worth mentioning, is that one does need to go on retreat (even if at home) and spend at least 2 hours a day in right meditation. Similarly, I don’t think you would believe someone who said they earned a medical degree spending 30 minutes a day studying. However, once the process of attaining Jhana is “caught” like riding a bicycle, it becomes effortless overall to attain Jhana again. I remember one of my teachers, Dr. Judson Brewer (now famous for his efforts to help smokers quit) told the story of how after 10 years of meditaion he went on a retreat in Nepal. While there, and lying down he slipped into Jhana and understood what the fuss was all about. He ran to to his teacher at the time, to express his excitement to which his teacher said, “Jud, I told you how to do this 10 years ago.
I don’t think, if taught properly, Buddhism ever recommends isolating oneself from the world—maybe to first attain Jhana and plant oneself firmly on the path (attaining stream entry) because the Buddha himself spent the last 50 years of his life not only teaching the path but traveling extensively and helping to stop wars and giving counsel to kings and anyone in a position to make a difference who would listen.
Long and short, don’t give up or rationalize away this profound accessible experience!
Thanks for reading
Mark
Thank you, Mark! This is a very thoughtful comment for your first on LessWrong.
I agree that the joy-must-be-earned stance you point to as Christian / Western is common. The 2024 virtual Jhourney retreat didn’t give me a path to unlearning it or disproving it. I think doing so would be hard. I am not convinced it is worth trying right now, but if it is a thing where you learn it, and then can easily return, that makes it more compelling.