As the prior threadmakes clear, distinguishing between genetic and environmental causes of intelligence is immensely complicated—especially given the confusion over what intelligence is.
However, it is well known that people don’t like being told that they’re statistically less likely to be intelligent. There are actually a fair number of studies showing that promoting stereotypes can actually reduce test scores. This is called “Stereotype Threat”. While there is a recent meta-study which claims that the effect is an artifact of publication bias, that study had not been published when Grace wrote her email.
Grace (a) has no new data, and (b) has no new arguments. When she makes the claim that the search for evidence that the race-iq correlation is not genetic has been “unsuccessful”, she hurts people. But she does not, in return, contribute anything at all to the discourse.
She cannot even claim the virtue of curiosity—note that her open-mindedness extends to the idea that African Americans might be as smart as whites, but not to the idea that they might be smarter.
Someone whose grasp of evidence is that weak, should not be working in the law.
Should someone who callously performs any act which she knows or should know will cause harm to people without any offsetting benefit, should probably be publicly shamed.
When she makes the claim that the search for evidence that the race-iq correlation is not genetic has been “unsuccessful”, she hurts people. But she does not, in return, contribute anything at all to the discourse.
Should someone who callously performs any act which she knows or should know will cause harm to people without any offsetting benefit, should probably be publicly shamed.
She was talking to friends at dinner. No harm there. The harm comes when months later one of the dinner companions forwards the e-mail to those who will likely be hurt.
I belive that “choose what to believe based on evidence” is not too high a standard.
The law connection is that Grace is a law student, going to clerk for a judge. Since the comment was not about her correctness but about her treatment, it’s reasonable to question whether the treatment was justified.
Grace (a) has no new data, and (b) has no new arguments. When she makes the claim that the search for evidence that the race-iq correlation is not genetic has been “unsuccessful”, she hurts people. But she does not, in return, contribute anything at all to the discourse.
Isn’t acknowledging what few others will acknowledge contributing to the discourse? A substantial portion of intellectuals refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that there is a correlation between race and intelligence (controlling for culture, etc). And they don’t get publicly shamed for shoddy science. Yet Grace should get publicly shamed for pointing out that the evidence suggests such a correlation? It’s not as if she claimed a high degree of certainty. Besides, the best way to overcome any disadvantages one race might have in intelligence is to understand why there are differences in the first place. Refusing to believe in a substantial portion of the hypothesis space for no good reason is a potentially huge detriment to this aim.
Grace certainly made a social error, and for that perhaps she can be criticized, but it shouldn’t be a social error to acknowledge different possibilities and the evidence for those possibilities in an intellectual* conversation.
* I.e., truth seeking. The evidence/possibilities shouldn’t be used in a condescending way, of course.
Besides, the best way to overcome any disadvantages one race might have in intelligence is to understand why there are differences in the first place.
It gets a lot more complicated when those differences are significantly directly affected by publicly discussing them, as seems to be the case. This statement may very well be true, but it’s also an applause light, and makes it sound like you think reality is obligated to be set up so that truthseeking wins.
It gets a lot more complicated when those differences are significantly affected by publicly discussing them, as seems to be the case.
Fair enough, though I’ll point out that the discussion was over dinner/email, not in an extremely public forum where many people will be exposed (though there is still the possibility that friends tell friends who tell friends, etc.).
...and makes it sound like you think reality is obligated to be set up so that truthseeking wins.
Yes, I see that now. How about this: it’s unclear that the best strategy for combating any racial disadvantages is not talking about them, rather than determining the cause and attempting to do something proactive about it.
As the prior threadmakes clear, distinguishing between genetic and environmental causes of intelligence is immensely complicated—especially given the confusion over what intelligence is.
However, it is well known that people don’t like being told that they’re statistically less likely to be intelligent. There are actually a fair number of studies showing that promoting stereotypes can actually reduce test scores. This is called “Stereotype Threat”. While there is a recent meta-study which claims that the effect is an artifact of publication bias, that study had not been published when Grace wrote her email.
Grace (a) has no new data, and (b) has no new arguments. When she makes the claim that the search for evidence that the race-iq correlation is not genetic has been “unsuccessful”, she hurts people. But she does not, in return, contribute anything at all to the discourse.
She cannot even claim the virtue of curiosity—note that her open-mindedness extends to the idea that African Americans might be as smart as whites, but not to the idea that they might be smarter.
Someone whose grasp of evidence is that weak, should not be working in the law.
Should someone who callously performs any act which she knows or should know will cause harm to people without any offsetting benefit, should probably be publicly shamed.
She was talking to friends at dinner. No harm there. The harm comes when months later one of the dinner companions forwards the e-mail to those who will likely be hurt.
It is the dinner companion who should be condemned, if this account of the matter is accurate.
There is always harm when a person makes a statement without regard to its truth.
Your standards for a dinner time discussion among law students are awfully high.
Incidentally, the only poster here who has ever claimed to be a practicing attorney (afaik) was Brazil, from the prior thread.
So that’s why I felt like he was cross-examining me in that thread. Mystery solved...
Well perhaps, fundamental attribution error and all that. Maybe he was just having a bad week or got defensive after we ganged up on him.
(Edit: but his global warming blog had the same kind of tone and approach)
Good point.
I belive that “choose what to believe based on evidence” is not too high a standard.
The law connection is that Grace is a law student, going to clerk for a judge. Since the comment was not about her correctness but about her treatment, it’s reasonable to question whether the treatment was justified.
Isn’t acknowledging what few others will acknowledge contributing to the discourse? A substantial portion of intellectuals refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that there is a correlation between race and intelligence (controlling for culture, etc). And they don’t get publicly shamed for shoddy science. Yet Grace should get publicly shamed for pointing out that the evidence suggests such a correlation? It’s not as if she claimed a high degree of certainty. Besides, the best way to overcome any disadvantages one race might have in intelligence is to understand why there are differences in the first place. Refusing to believe in a substantial portion of the hypothesis space for no good reason is a potentially huge detriment to this aim.
Grace certainly made a social error, and for that perhaps she can be criticized, but it shouldn’t be a social error to acknowledge different possibilities and the evidence for those possibilities in an intellectual* conversation.
* I.e., truth seeking. The evidence/possibilities shouldn’t be used in a condescending way, of course.
It gets a lot more complicated when those differences are significantly directly affected by publicly discussing them, as seems to be the case. This statement may very well be true, but it’s also an applause light, and makes it sound like you think reality is obligated to be set up so that truthseeking wins.
Fair enough, though I’ll point out that the discussion was over dinner/email, not in an extremely public forum where many people will be exposed (though there is still the possibility that friends tell friends who tell friends, etc.).
Yes, I see that now. How about this: it’s unclear that the best strategy for combating any racial disadvantages is not talking about them, rather than determining the cause and attempting to do something proactive about it.