You can, perhaps, encourage a social environment where such virtues can more readily be exercised, and avoid encouraging a social environment where they’re stifled.
I thought that’s what you were talking about: that some ways of organizing people fight or delegitimize personal loyalty considerations, while others work with it or at least figure out how not to actively destroy it. It seemed to me like you were saying that the way Rationalists try to do community tends to be corrosive to this other thing you think is important.
That’s… at once both close to what I’m saying, and also not really what I’m saying at all.
I underestimated the inferential distance here, it seems; it’s surprising to me, how much what I am saying is not obvious. (If anything, I expected the reaction to be more like “ok, yes, duh, that is true and boring and everyone knows this”.)
I may try to write something longer on this topic, but I fear it would have to be much longer; the matters that this question touches upon range wide and deep…
I thought that’s what you were talking about: that some ways of organizing people fight or delegitimize personal loyalty considerations, while others work with it or at least figure out how not to actively destroy it. It seemed to me like you were saying that the way Rationalists try to do community tends to be corrosive to this other thing you think is important.
That’s… at once both close to what I’m saying, and also not really what I’m saying at all.
I underestimated the inferential distance here, it seems; it’s surprising to me, how much what I am saying is not obvious. (If anything, I expected the reaction to be more like “ok, yes, duh, that is true and boring and everyone knows this”.)
I may try to write something longer on this topic, but I fear it would have to be much longer; the matters that this question touches upon range wide and deep…
I hope you do find the time to write about this in depth.
Seconded. Would like to hear the in-depth version.