But how happy or sad other minds are does change how happy or sad I am. Why would it be looking out for myself better if I ignored something that changes my life in a big way? And why should I pretend to only care about myself if I really do care about others? Or pretend to only care about how others cause changes in me, when I do in fact care about the well-being of people who don’t change me?
Suppose I said to you that it’s bad to care about the person you’re going to be. After all, you aren’t that person now. That person’s thoughts and concerns are outside of the present you. And that person can’t change anything for the present you.
That wouldn’t be a very good reason to ignore the person I’ll become. After all, I do want the person I’m going to be to be happy. I don’t need to give reasons showing why I should care about myself over time. I just need to note that I do in fact care about myself over time. How is this different, in any important way that changes the reasoning above, from noting that I do in fact care about other people in their own right?
If people only cared about other people as ways to get warm good feels for themselves, then people would be happy to change themselves to get warm good feels both when others are happy and when others are sad. People also wouldn’t care about people too far away to cause changes for them. But if I send a space car full of people far away from me, I still want them to be happy even after they’re too far away to ever change anything for me again. That’s a fact about how I am. Why should I try to change that?
I guess that makes sense. When people say things like “I want a lot of money”, “I want to live in a fulfilling relationship”, “I want to climb mt. everest”, the essential quality of these desires is that they are real and actually happen roughly the same way you picture it in your mind. No one says things like “I want to have the good feeling of living in a fulfilling relationship whether or not I actually live in one”… no. Because it’s important that they’re actually real. You can say the same thing about helping others—if you don’t want other people to suffer, then it’s important that they actually don’t suffer.
That wouldn’t be a very good reason to ignore the person I’ll become. After all, I do want the person I’m going to be to be happy. How is this different, in any important way that changes the reasoning above, from noting that I do in fact care about other people in their own right?
It’s a bit different. You will eventually become the person you are in the future, but it’s impossible to never get inside the mind of someone else, at least not directly.
people would be happy to change themselves to get warm good feels both when others are happy and when others are sad.
How would you actually change yourself? It’s very difficult in practice.
People also wouldn’t care about people too far away to cause changes for them.
But people don’t care about far away people so much as they care about people that are similar to you. When westerners get in trouble in developing countries, people make a big effort to get them safe and mostly ignore all suffering that is going on around that. People send less money to people in developing countries than say, war veterans or people at home.
That’s a fact about how I am. Why should I try to change that?
You shouldn’t. I’m the same way, I try to help people for the sake of helping them. But there are some people who are only interested in their own well-being and I’m just thinking how I could argue with them.
Because it’s important that they’re actually real.
Yes! I think that’s a lot like what I was talking about.
You will eventually become the person you are in the future
Present-you won’t. Present-you will go away and never know that will happen. You-over-time may change from present-you to you-to-come, but I wasn’t talking about you-over-time.
Also, mind reading could change this some day, maybe.
How would you actually change yourself? It’s very difficult in practice.
Yes, but even if it weren’t possible at all, and we thought it were possible, whether we wished for it could say a lot about what we really want.
People send less money to people in developing countries than say, war veterans or people at home.
Yes, but that’s very different from saying that people don’t care about far away people at all except in so far as they get changed by them. If it were completely easy for you to in a flash make the lives of everyone you’ll never know about ten times as good, for free, you would want to do that.
But how happy or sad other minds are does change how happy or sad I am. Why would it be looking out for myself better if I ignored something that changes my life in a big way? And why should I pretend to only care about myself if I really do care about others? Or pretend to only care about how others cause changes in me, when I do in fact care about the well-being of people who don’t change me?
Suppose I said to you that it’s bad to care about the person you’re going to be. After all, you aren’t that person now. That person’s thoughts and concerns are outside of the present you. And that person can’t change anything for the present you.
That wouldn’t be a very good reason to ignore the person I’ll become. After all, I do want the person I’m going to be to be happy. I don’t need to give reasons showing why I should care about myself over time. I just need to note that I do in fact care about myself over time. How is this different, in any important way that changes the reasoning above, from noting that I do in fact care about other people in their own right?
If people only cared about other people as ways to get warm good feels for themselves, then people would be happy to change themselves to get warm good feels both when others are happy and when others are sad. People also wouldn’t care about people too far away to cause changes for them. But if I send a space car full of people far away from me, I still want them to be happy even after they’re too far away to ever change anything for me again. That’s a fact about how I am. Why should I try to change that?
I guess that makes sense. When people say things like “I want a lot of money”, “I want to live in a fulfilling relationship”, “I want to climb mt. everest”, the essential quality of these desires is that they are real and actually happen roughly the same way you picture it in your mind. No one says things like “I want to have the good feeling of living in a fulfilling relationship whether or not I actually live in one”… no. Because it’s important that they’re actually real. You can say the same thing about helping others—if you don’t want other people to suffer, then it’s important that they actually don’t suffer.
It’s a bit different. You will eventually become the person you are in the future, but it’s impossible to never get inside the mind of someone else, at least not directly.
How would you actually change yourself? It’s very difficult in practice.
But people don’t care about far away people so much as they care about people that are similar to you. When westerners get in trouble in developing countries, people make a big effort to get them safe and mostly ignore all suffering that is going on around that. People send less money to people in developing countries than say, war veterans or people at home.
You shouldn’t. I’m the same way, I try to help people for the sake of helping them. But there are some people who are only interested in their own well-being and I’m just thinking how I could argue with them.
Yes! I think that’s a lot like what I was talking about.
Present-you won’t. Present-you will go away and never know that will happen. You-over-time may change from present-you to you-to-come, but I wasn’t talking about you-over-time.
Also, mind reading could change this some day, maybe.
Yes, but even if it weren’t possible at all, and we thought it were possible, whether we wished for it could say a lot about what we really want.
Yes, but that’s very different from saying that people don’t care about far away people at all except in so far as they get changed by them. If it were completely easy for you to in a flash make the lives of everyone you’ll never know about ten times as good, for free, you would want to do that.