I think emotional tone of almost any sort gets downvoted. Except for a lofty disdain. That’s often approved of. Perhaps it’s not the disdain that’s approved of, but the idea, and the disdain is just indulged in when the writer is confident of a mass of approval.
Me, I think emotional tone conveys information, and I find the arid emotional atmosphere unsatisfying. Worse, I find the lofty disdain usually unwarranted and thereby rather grating.
As a counter to my own claims I did get upvoted a good deal on a post with a restrained but definite peculiar emotional tone—a bit of an odd mood. I expected the post to be downvoted, so I clearly have some work on my calibration.
I agree that lofty disdain tends to be rewarded with karma points on this board. Also, rudeness when you are in the minority is a karma loser. I prefer to think of karma points on this board as measuring a person’s covariance with the group opinion. So, if you find the group opinion optimal, you should try to maximize karma points.
I’m planning on stating a personal policy of posting that I intend to follow on a different board. Basically, I will refrain from using pejoratives, or ‘one-off’ pejoratives. However, stating facts are always in-bounds, no matter how unflattering they are to some. An example of a ‘one-off’ pejorative is to call someone’s argument ‘nonsense’; the implication being that the person is nonsensical. It’s in the vein of Crocker’s Rules, but slightly different.
Why I plan to do this:
I think that people engaged in internet discussions should be given the benefit of the doubt that they sincerely believe what they are saying (without evidence to the contrary). So, it’s overly harsh to go off on someone on the internet because their opinion differs from yours. If you wouldn’t behave that way IRL, you shouldn’t on the internet either. Also, if people know you will be sticking to the facts, they will be less inclined to engage in distracting flames.
This is purely a tactical decision, as I have presented an alternative hypothesis to a dogma that is cherished on that board, and plan to expand on that. Thus, I am in the minority. So, I won’t follow this policy because I believe I am nicer or better than others, but rather out of intelligent self-interest. So, I will be turning the other cheek, but I hope to use that to my advantage later.
I prefer to think of karma points on this board as measuring a person’s covariance with the group opinion.
Is that why the top voted post in Main is one by an outspoken critic? If the above were true, if this forum didn’t also reward group-contrarian ideas as long as they were well presented, how could LW purport to be about rationality? It’s quite the devastating statement that karma is based mostly on “agrees/disagrees with me”/tribal lines.
If the above were true, if this forum didn’t also reward group-contrarian ideas as long as they were well presented, how could LW purport to be about rationality?
Is that intended to be an argument? Notice that it is not.
I think the top-voted post you’re referring to (link does not work) is by the GiveWell evaluator. Besides writing a good post, he was an outsider with high status paying attention to LW, and Eliezer and everyone supporting SIAI desperately wanted to impress him and make him feel like he was being taken seriously. Not an admittable datapoint.
I prefer to think of karma points on this board as measuring a person’s covariance with the group opinion.
I would agree with you if you said “group norms” rather than “group opinion”. While there are some opinions on LW that function as group norms, the bulk of the norms here are instead procedural.
I think emotional tone of almost any sort gets downvoted. Except for a lofty disdain. That’s often approved of. Perhaps it’s not the disdain that’s approved of, but the idea, and the disdain is just indulged in when the writer is confident of a mass of approval.
Me, I think emotional tone conveys information, and I find the arid emotional atmosphere unsatisfying. Worse, I find the lofty disdain usually unwarranted and thereby rather grating.
As a counter to my own claims I did get upvoted a good deal on a post with a restrained but definite peculiar emotional tone—a bit of an odd mood. I expected the post to be downvoted, so I clearly have some work on my calibration.
I agree that lofty disdain tends to be rewarded with karma points on this board. Also, rudeness when you are in the minority is a karma loser. I prefer to think of karma points on this board as measuring a person’s covariance with the group opinion. So, if you find the group opinion optimal, you should try to maximize karma points.
I’m planning on stating a personal policy of posting that I intend to follow on a different board. Basically, I will refrain from using pejoratives, or ‘one-off’ pejoratives. However, stating facts are always in-bounds, no matter how unflattering they are to some. An example of a ‘one-off’ pejorative is to call someone’s argument ‘nonsense’; the implication being that the person is nonsensical. It’s in the vein of Crocker’s Rules, but slightly different.
Why I plan to do this:
I think that people engaged in internet discussions should be given the benefit of the doubt that they sincerely believe what they are saying (without evidence to the contrary). So, it’s overly harsh to go off on someone on the internet because their opinion differs from yours. If you wouldn’t behave that way IRL, you shouldn’t on the internet either. Also, if people know you will be sticking to the facts, they will be less inclined to engage in distracting flames.
This is purely a tactical decision, as I have presented an alternative hypothesis to a dogma that is cherished on that board, and plan to expand on that. Thus, I am in the minority. So, I won’t follow this policy because I believe I am nicer or better than others, but rather out of intelligent self-interest. So, I will be turning the other cheek, but I hope to use that to my advantage later.
Is that why the top voted post in Main is one by an outspoken critic? If the above were true, if this forum didn’t also reward group-contrarian ideas as long as they were well presented, how could LW purport to be about rationality? It’s quite the devastating statement that karma is based mostly on “agrees/disagrees with me”/tribal lines.
Is that intended to be an argument? Notice that it is not.
I think the top-voted post you’re referring to (link does not work) is by the GiveWell evaluator. Besides writing a good post, he was an outsider with high status paying attention to LW, and Eliezer and everyone supporting SIAI desperately wanted to impress him and make him feel like he was being taken seriously. Not an admittable datapoint.
I would agree with you if you said “group norms” rather than “group opinion”. While there are some opinions on LW that function as group norms, the bulk of the norms here are instead procedural.
It’s a nearly universal pattern with groups of humans that the more you follow the group’s norms, the more highly the group thinks of you.
You’re ugly. Well, maybe, I don’t really know. But are personal “facts” such as that in bounds?
I would call that an opinion. A pejorative one.
Also not likely to be relevant to any serious discussion I would ever have on the internet.