Do you think other people MUST have the same goal and if they don’t they are mistaken?
Well yes , because if ask you the question today you’ll answer me that you want to live one more day , if I ask you the same question tomorrow you’ll still answer me that you want to live one more day....and so forth… then you must plan in advance in order to make it happen ; If you fail to plan ; you plan to fail
That was one of Eliezer’s worse arguments, for a number of reasons. First of all, it is literally false. If you are actually asking what would happen if that were to happen in reality, here’s the answer: each day there is a finite probability that you will say that you do not want to live another day. And there is no reason for that probability to go down infinitely, so in the limit you can be quite sure that you will one day say that you do not want to live another day.
Second, and more empirically, many people in their 80s say they are basically waiting to die, and not because their lives are awful, but because they think they lived long enough. And perhaps they will still say they want one more day, but perhaps not, especially for the above reason.
Third, time inconsistency. Even if you actually say you want to live another day each day, that does not prove that you want to live forever, anymore than if there is an alcoholic who says he wants a drink whenever he is offered, that means he wants to remain an alcoholic.
Second, and more empirically, many people in their 80s say they are basically waiting to die, and not because their lives are awful, but because they think they lived long enough. And perhaps they will still say they want one more day, but perhaps not, especially for the above reason.
They are simply , wrong , or if you prefer they have a limited vision , they think that they have experienced everything that there is to life , but if they lived longer new cool stuff to experience would emerge and so forth
Well yes , because if ask you the question today you’ll answer me that you want to live one more day
You’re forgetting that there is a cost to everything.
This goes back to my question about 60 years as a rich first-worlder or 80 years as a tropical subsistence farmer. Or, if you want, it goes back to at least the Achilles’ choice in Iliad.
This goes back to my question about 60 years as a rich first-worlder or 80 years as a tropical subsistence farmer. Or, if you want, it goes back to at least the Achilles’ choice in Iliad.
I’ll take 80 years as a subsistence farmer over 60 years as Bill “fired my co-founder and childhood friend while he was dying of cancer” Gates any time , because he’ll run out of options and will have his freedom of action reduced to a big fat zero 20 years earlier than the farmer
Yes, as your personal choice. But the interesting question is whether you consider people who make a different choice to be just wrong or mentally ill.
You do recognize that other people are different from you..?
Drug addicts and alcoholics are different from me too....but society paints them as people with disturbs who need to be cured , because those of us not drinking and not doing drugs somehow know better than them and know what is better for them (and for us given that we always calculate the cost of drugs on society , healthcare and economy)
Also would you consider moral somebody who sells a bunch of useless rocks like opals , rubies....for 200k? Society paints drug dealers as evil making money off innocent people’s poor decisions , I don’t know how is that different from a jeweler selling a ruby for 200k , plus people wasting resources mining , polishing , selling and collecting these useless rocks are a cost for society exactly like drug addicts
because those of us not drinking and not doing drugs somehow know better than them
Careful there. Societies’ opinions on what’s proper and what’s not… change. A few centuries ago if you weren’t a Christian in Europe, you were a person “with disturbs” who needs to be cured, by a bonfire if necessary (to save your immortal soul, of course).
Also would you consider moral somebody who sells a bunch of useless rocks like opals , rubies....for 200k?
Sure. What’s the problem with voluntary transactions? They are useless to you, but not to other people. Do you know what’s useless and what’s not better than everyone else?
Sure. What’s the problem with voluntary transactions? They are useless to you, but not to other people. Do you know what’s useless and what’s not better than everyone else?
A person who regularly buys opiates is making a voluntary transaction too , society acts to stop these transactions because they damage collectivity (costs for society being : healthcare , unemployment , crime , loss of productivity...) , by the same token you could argue that mining , polishing , transporting and selling a useless rock like a ruby has some undesirable costs for society
By the same token you could argue for a lot of things—from pointing out that publicly expressing doubt in Beloved Great Leader “has some undesirable costs for society” to just putting grannies onto ice floes.
Ok , so does this mean that you’re in favor of a depenalization of both commerce and consumption of all drugs , alcohol and prostitution with no age restriction?
With age restrictions (because minors are limited in the consent they can give) but yes, I am in favour of decriminalisation of sex, drugs, and alcohol.
I feel this is a good place for a Hunter S. Thompson quote X-D
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.
I’ll take 80 years as a subsistence farmer over 60 years as Bill “fired my co-founder and childhood friend while he was dying of cancer” Gates any time
I would have supposed that Bill Gates was on your “good CEO list” (if you have such a list) due to the amount of money he has contributed to vaccine development and generally to improving health, longevity and quality of life in developing nations.
Do you think other people MUST have the same goal and if they don’t they are mistaken?
Well yes , because if ask you the question today you’ll answer me that you want to live one more day , if I ask you the same question tomorrow you’ll still answer me that you want to live one more day....and so forth… then you must plan in advance in order to make it happen ; If you fail to plan ; you plan to fail
That was one of Eliezer’s worse arguments, for a number of reasons. First of all, it is literally false. If you are actually asking what would happen if that were to happen in reality, here’s the answer: each day there is a finite probability that you will say that you do not want to live another day. And there is no reason for that probability to go down infinitely, so in the limit you can be quite sure that you will one day say that you do not want to live another day.
Second, and more empirically, many people in their 80s say they are basically waiting to die, and not because their lives are awful, but because they think they lived long enough. And perhaps they will still say they want one more day, but perhaps not, especially for the above reason.
Third, time inconsistency. Even if you actually say you want to live another day each day, that does not prove that you want to live forever, anymore than if there is an alcoholic who says he wants a drink whenever he is offered, that means he wants to remain an alcoholic.
They are simply , wrong , or if you prefer they have a limited vision , they think that they have experienced everything that there is to life , but if they lived longer new cool stuff to experience would emerge and so forth
The ironic thing is that they probably know more about it than you do, and when you are their age you might think the same way they do.
You’re forgetting that there is a cost to everything.
This goes back to my question about 60 years as a rich first-worlder or 80 years as a tropical subsistence farmer. Or, if you want, it goes back to at least the Achilles’ choice in Iliad.
I’ll take 80 years as a subsistence farmer over 60 years as Bill “fired my co-founder and childhood friend while he was dying of cancer” Gates any time , because he’ll run out of options and will have his freedom of action reduced to a big fat zero 20 years earlier than the farmer
Yes, as your personal choice. But the interesting question is whether you consider people who make a different choice to be just wrong or mentally ill.
So are you claiming that you DON’T consider a person who spends 200k in jewelry to be mentally ill ? 200k for a bunch of rocks...
Yes, I do not.
You do recognize that other people are different from you..?
Drug addicts and alcoholics are different from me too....but society paints them as people with disturbs who need to be cured , because those of us not drinking and not doing drugs somehow know better than them and know what is better for them (and for us given that we always calculate the cost of drugs on society , healthcare and economy)
Also would you consider moral somebody who sells a bunch of useless rocks like opals , rubies....for 200k? Society paints drug dealers as evil making money off innocent people’s poor decisions , I don’t know how is that different from a jeweler selling a ruby for 200k , plus people wasting resources mining , polishing , selling and collecting these useless rocks are a cost for society exactly like drug addicts
Careful there. Societies’ opinions on what’s proper and what’s not… change. A few centuries ago if you weren’t a Christian in Europe, you were a person “with disturbs” who needs to be cured, by a bonfire if necessary (to save your immortal soul, of course).
Sure. What’s the problem with voluntary transactions? They are useless to you, but not to other people. Do you know what’s useless and what’s not better than everyone else?
A person who regularly buys opiates is making a voluntary transaction too , society acts to stop these transactions because they damage collectivity (costs for society being : healthcare , unemployment , crime , loss of productivity...) , by the same token you could argue that mining , polishing , transporting and selling a useless rock like a ruby has some undesirable costs for society
By the same token you could argue for a lot of things—from pointing out that publicly expressing doubt in Beloved Great Leader “has some undesirable costs for society” to just putting grannies onto ice floes.
Ok , so does this mean that you’re in favor of a depenalization of both commerce and consumption of all drugs , alcohol and prostitution with no age restriction?
With age restrictions (because minors are limited in the consent they can give) but yes, I am in favour of decriminalisation of sex, drugs, and alcohol.
I feel this is a good place for a Hunter S. Thompson quote X-D
I would have supposed that Bill Gates was on your “good CEO list” (if you have such a list) due to the amount of money he has contributed to vaccine development and generally to improving health, longevity and quality of life in developing nations.