“His arguments only undermine the conception of free will as ultimate origination, but have nothing to say about (the more defensible) conception of free will as choosing on the basis of one’s desires.”
That is not “more defensible”, that’s inane. What’s the point of “freely choosing” what you want to do based on your desires...if you are not in control of your desires? It’s a pedantic technicality that ignores what laymen generally assume when they say “free will”...that they are in control of their own actions, as well as their own desires that act as motivation for their own actions.
If I develop a mind control device that implants “desires” in the mind of its targets, and the targets act predictably based on said “desires”, can you really say that the targets have ‘free will’?
EDIT: It’s possible that “free will” may somehow be “bounded” or “limited” (desires are selected, but you decide what you do with said desires), and that may be what you’re getting at, but if this is the case, I don’t think you should really call it “free will” then, lest it get confused with the broader interpretation of “free will” that is more commonly understood to be said definition of “free will”.
A concept being “insane”* isn’t mutually exclusive with it being more defensible than another (presumably even more “insane”) concept.
What’s the point of “freely choosing” what you want to do based on your desires...if you are not in control of your desires?
I never claimed there was a point to believing in such a doctrine (I’m not a libertarian in metaphysics); I was merely showing that the conclusions of the arguments in the video only contradict a subset of the theories of free will. I think people that argue for free will as choosing on the basis of one’s desires would say that you do choose your desires (by choosing on the basis of your higher order desires).
It’s a pedantic technicality that ignores what laymen generally assume when they say “free will”...that they are in control of their own actions, as well as their own desires that act as motivation for their own actions.
The man in the video claimed that he was arguing against a view held by philosophers, not laymen. My comment was a response to a specific video, not “the man on the street”. Also, you and the man in the video have used the term “in control”. What do you mean by “in control”? Are people choosing on the basis of their desires not “in control”? I don’t see why they wouldn’t be.
If I develop a mind control device that implants “desires” in the mind of its targets, and the targets act predictably based on said “desires”, can you really say that the targets have ‘free will’?
I am far from an expert on the free will versus determinism debate (I haven’t even read a single book on the subject), but my guess is that it would depend on which desires were changed. If the device changed the highest order desires of the agent, then I think libertarians (in the metaphysical sense) would agree that the free will of the agent has been compromised. On the other hand, if an agent used the device to make their lower order desires better conform to their higher order desires, then the act of using the device and the subsequent actions of the agent would be in accordance with free will.
EDIT: It’s possible that “free will” may somehow be “bounded” or “limited” (desires are selected, but you decide what you do with said desires), and that may be what you’re getting at, but if this is the case, I don’t think you should really call it “free will” then, lest it get confused with the broader interpretation of “free will” that is more commonly understood to be said definition of “free will”.
I’m merely adopting the standard language used by philosophers.
*I assumed that “inane” was a typo and that you meant to type “insane”, but even if the reverse is true my response still makes sense.
“His arguments only undermine the conception of free will as ultimate origination, but have nothing to say about (the more defensible) conception of free will as choosing on the basis of one’s desires.”
That is not “more defensible”, that’s inane. What’s the point of “freely choosing” what you want to do based on your desires...if you are not in control of your desires? It’s a pedantic technicality that ignores what laymen generally assume when they say “free will”...that they are in control of their own actions, as well as their own desires that act as motivation for their own actions.
If I develop a mind control device that implants “desires” in the mind of its targets, and the targets act predictably based on said “desires”, can you really say that the targets have ‘free will’?
EDIT: It’s possible that “free will” may somehow be “bounded” or “limited” (desires are selected, but you decide what you do with said desires), and that may be what you’re getting at, but if this is the case, I don’t think you should really call it “free will” then, lest it get confused with the broader interpretation of “free will” that is more commonly understood to be said definition of “free will”.
A concept being “insane”* isn’t mutually exclusive with it being more defensible than another (presumably even more “insane”) concept.
I never claimed there was a point to believing in such a doctrine (I’m not a libertarian in metaphysics); I was merely showing that the conclusions of the arguments in the video only contradict a subset of the theories of free will. I think people that argue for free will as choosing on the basis of one’s desires would say that you do choose your desires (by choosing on the basis of your higher order desires).
The man in the video claimed that he was arguing against a view held by philosophers, not laymen. My comment was a response to a specific video, not “the man on the street”. Also, you and the man in the video have used the term “in control”. What do you mean by “in control”? Are people choosing on the basis of their desires not “in control”? I don’t see why they wouldn’t be.
I am far from an expert on the free will versus determinism debate (I haven’t even read a single book on the subject), but my guess is that it would depend on which desires were changed. If the device changed the highest order desires of the agent, then I think libertarians (in the metaphysical sense) would agree that the free will of the agent has been compromised. On the other hand, if an agent used the device to make their lower order desires better conform to their higher order desires, then the act of using the device and the subsequent actions of the agent would be in accordance with free will.
I’m merely adopting the standard language used by philosophers.
*I assumed that “inane” was a typo and that you meant to type “insane”, but even if the reverse is true my response still makes sense.