I understand the motivation behind this, but there is little warning that this is how the forum works. There is no warning that trying to contribute in good faith isn’t sufficient, and you may still end up partially banned (rate-limited) if they decide you are more noise than signal. Instead, people invest a lot only to discover this when it’s too late.
In addition to the New User Guide that gets DMed to every new user (and is also linked at the top of our About page), we:
Show this comment above the new post form to new users who haven’t already had some content approved by admins. (Note that it also links to the new user’s guide.)
Open a modal when a new, unreviewed user clicks into a comment box to write a comment for the first time. Note how it’s three sentences long, explicitly tells users that they start out rate limited, and also links to the new user’s guide.
Now, it’s true that people mostly don’t read things. So there is a tricky balance to strike between providing “sufficient” warning, and not driving people away because you keep throwing annoying roadblocks/warnings at them[1]. But it is simply not the case that LessWrong does not go out of its way to tell new users that the site has specific (and fairly high) standards.
On the old internet, you didn’t get advance notice that you should internalize the norms of the community you were trying to join. You just got told to lurk more—or banned without warning, if you were unlucky.
This is fine for new users; what about for existing users?
I just went to the front page of the site, and it’s not obvious to me where to click to find “The Rules”. The “About” page? Doesn’t seem to be a list of rules. The New User’s Guide? Not really. (There’s a “Rules to be aware of” section at the very, very end of that post, but… surely this isn’t meant to be a list of the rules…? It’s just… three kind of random things.) The LessWrong FAQ? Not really…
If I want to know what rules (or guidelines, or… anything, really…) are supposed to be governing my behavior on LW, I actually don’t have any idea where to look. And I’ve been using Less Wrong for a very long time.
Related point: when the rules change, how do existing users learn about this?
P.S.: What happened to the table of contents on LW post pages? Why can’t I see it anymore?
I don’t think much has changed since this comment. Maybe someone will make a new wiki page on the subject, though if it’s not an admin I’d expect it to mostly be a collection of links to various posts/comments.
re: the table of contents, it’s hidden by default but becomes visible if you hover your mouse over the left column on post pages.
I don’t think much has changed since this comment. Maybe someone will make a new wiki page on the subject, though if it’s not an admin I’d expect it to mostly be a collection of links to various posts/comments
That’s… pretty bad. Frankly, I don’t understand how you expect anyone to have any idea of what to expect from the site and the moderation thereof, given this utterly shambolic state of affairs.
I’ll just repeat my question from two years ago (which did not receive any answer at the time):
Here’s a question: if you asked ten randomly selected Less Wrong members: “What are the rules of Less Wrong?”—how many of them would give the correct answer? Not as a link to this or that comment, but in their own words (or even just by quoting a list of rules, minus the commentary)?
(What is the correct answer?)
How many of their answers would even match one another?
re: the table of contents, it’s hidden by default but becomes visible if you hover your mouse over the left column on post pages.
It doesn’t do that for me (might be a browser issue). In any case, is there a way to have it be visible by default? I’d really prefer that.
In addition to the New User Guide that gets DMed to every new user (and is also linked at the top of our About page), we:
Show this comment above the new post form to new users who haven’t already had some content approved by admins. (Note that it also links to the new user’s guide.)
Open a modal when a new, unreviewed user clicks into a comment box to write a comment for the first time. Note how it’s three sentences long, explicitly tells users that they start out rate limited, and also links to the new user’s guide.
Show new, unreviewed users this moderation warning directly underneath the comment box.
Now, it’s true that people mostly don’t read things. So there is a tricky balance to strike between providing “sufficient” warning, and not driving people away because you keep throwing annoying roadblocks/warnings at them[1]. But it is simply not the case that LessWrong does not go out of its way to tell new users that the site has specific (and fairly high) standards.
On the old internet, you didn’t get advance notice that you should internalize the norms of the community you were trying to join. You just got told to lurk more—or banned without warning, if you were unlucky.
This is fine for new users; what about for existing users?
I just went to the front page of the site, and it’s not obvious to me where to click to find “The Rules”. The “About” page? Doesn’t seem to be a list of rules. The New User’s Guide? Not really. (There’s a “Rules to be aware of” section at the very, very end of that post, but… surely this isn’t meant to be a list of the rules…? It’s just… three kind of random things.) The LessWrong FAQ? Not really…
If I want to know what rules (or guidelines, or… anything, really…) are supposed to be governing my behavior on LW, I actually don’t have any idea where to look. And I’ve been using Less Wrong for a very long time.
Related point: when the rules change, how do existing users learn about this?
P.S.: What happened to the table of contents on LW post pages? Why can’t I see it anymore?
I don’t think much has changed since this comment. Maybe someone will make a new wiki page on the subject, though if it’s not an admin I’d expect it to mostly be a collection of links to various posts/comments.
re: the table of contents, it’s hidden by default but becomes visible if you hover your mouse over the left column on post pages.
That’s… pretty bad. Frankly, I don’t understand how you expect anyone to have any idea of what to expect from the site and the moderation thereof, given this utterly shambolic state of affairs.
I’ll just repeat my question from two years ago (which did not receive any answer at the time):
It doesn’t do that for me (might be a browser issue). In any case, is there a way to have it be visible by default? I’d really prefer that.
Thank you very much for bringing that up. That does look like a clearer warning, somehow I didn’t remember it very well.