Maps require a mind, a consciousness of some sort.
Think of it this way: Godel’s incompleteness theorem demonstrates there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. It’s perfectly okay for us to talk about those hypothetical statements as existing in the “platonic” sense, even though we might never really have them in the grasps of our minds and notebooks.
Similarly, it’s okay for us to talk about a space of maps even while knowing we can’t necessarily generate every map in that space due to constraints on us that might exist. I haven’t actually read any Plato, so I might be misusing the term. I’m just using the word “platonic” to describe the entire space of maps, including the ungraspable ones. “Platonic” is merely to distinguish those things from things that actually exist in the territory.
The problem is that, as stated, this claim (a) could never be decided; and (b) has no practical consequences whatsoever.
part a) I endorse Dxu’s defense of what I said, and see my reply to him for my objections to what he said.
part b) I disagree in principle with the idea that the validity of things depends on practical consequences, However, the whole point here is to create a starting point from which the rest of everything can be derived, and the rest of everything does have practical consequences
(it may be fair to say that there is no practical reason to derive them from a small starting point, but that is questioning the practicality of philosophy in general)
So, you’re talking about things you can, basically, imagine.
Yes, all the logically consistent systems we can imagine, and more. (See the Godel analogy above for “and more”.)
In which sense do “ungraspable maps” exist, but herds of rainbow unicorns gallivanting on clouds do not?
You...can’t imagine logically coherent systems with rainbow unicorns on clouds?
Keep in mind, we’re making distinctions between “real tangible reality” and “the space of logically coherent systems”. Your ad-absurdum works by using the word “exist” to confound those two, in a “tree falls in the forest” sort of manner. I specifically used the word “platonic” hoping to separate those ideas. It’s merely an inconvenience of language that we don’t have the words to distinguish the tautological “reality” and “existence” of 1+1=2 from the reality of “look, there’s a thing over there”. People say “in Integers, there exists an odd number between every even number” but it’s not that sort of “existence”.
Think of it this way: Godel’s incompleteness theorem demonstrates there will always be statements about the natural numbers that are true, but that are unprovable within the system. It’s perfectly okay for us to talk about those hypothetical statements as existing in the “platonic” sense, even though we might never really have them in the grasps of our minds and notebooks.
Similarly, it’s okay for us to talk about a space of maps even while knowing we can’t necessarily generate every map in that space due to constraints on us that might exist. I haven’t actually read any Plato, so I might be misusing the term. I’m just using the word “platonic” to describe the entire space of maps, including the ungraspable ones. “Platonic” is merely to distinguish those things from things that actually exist in the territory.
part a) I endorse Dxu’s defense of what I said, and see my reply to him for my objections to what he said.
part b) I disagree in principle with the idea that the validity of things depends on practical consequences, However, the whole point here is to create a starting point from which the rest of everything can be derived, and the rest of everything does have practical consequences
(it may be fair to say that there is no practical reason to derive them from a small starting point, but that is questioning the practicality of philosophy in general)
So, you’re talking about things you can, basically, imagine.
In which sense do “ungraspable maps” exist, but herds of rainbow unicorns gallivanting on clouds do not?
I concur with your disagreement :-) but here we have TWO things: (1) unprovable and unfalsifiable; and (2) of no practical consequences.
Consider the claim that there is God, He created the universe, but then left forever. The same two things could be said of this claim as well.
Yes, all the logically consistent systems we can imagine, and more. (See the Godel analogy above for “and more”.)
You...can’t imagine logically coherent systems with rainbow unicorns on clouds?
Keep in mind, we’re making distinctions between “real tangible reality” and “the space of logically coherent systems”. Your ad-absurdum works by using the word “exist” to confound those two, in a “tree falls in the forest” sort of manner. I specifically used the word “platonic” hoping to separate those ideas. It’s merely an inconvenience of language that we don’t have the words to distinguish the tautological “reality” and “existence” of 1+1=2 from the reality of “look, there’s a thing over there”. People say “in Integers, there exists an odd number between every even number” but it’s not that sort of “existence”.