When Luke said that, his “aha” moment wasn’t that these things existed, it’s why they exist. And more importantly, why it’s a good idea to focus on that instead of saying “concentrating on looks is vain, a woman should like me for who I am.”
I’m curious about this. What was the reason that Luke found for paying attention on fashion, that needed an insight into the reasons people care about fashion? It seems to me that fashions importance depends primarily on how much other people care about it, irrespective of why they care, but I don’t understand fashion so could easily be missing something.
This assumption is not there. The assumption is that there is a reason people behave how they do, and this behavior is a logical conclusion from evo psych.
I think that part of my post was rather unclear. Of course, people on this site don’t consciously hold the view that people must make sense, but that nevertheless seems to be the direction of a lot of peoples thoughts. To clarify, what I was trying to state is that there is a tendency for many rationalists to try and look for a reason for peoples behaviour and, when failing to find it, to try and find an evo psych explanation for this behaviour. I may be wrong about this, but its something I’ve noticed in my own thoughts, and it seems to be echoed in what many other people here have written. Crucially, if my behaviour is similar to other peoples, a lot of the apparent benefit of learning the explanations for others behaviour is just in coming to accept it. It’s a lot easier to tolerate things about people you disagree with when you know why they’re doing it—even if your wrong about the reason. But, you can also just learn to accept people.
Of course, the assumption that peoples behaviour is a logical conclusion from evo psych is a much more justifiable one. But, even so, I’d challenge this one. Evolutionary psychology is not a scientific model in the same way that something like the standard model in Physics is; from what I know of it, it seems wholly unable to make any firm predictions on any aspect of human behaviour—it can just try and explain the behaviour of humans that is already observed. So, I suppose I’m still failing to see how knowing the evo psych explanation of something will really help you in interacting with others?
Having said this, I feel more optimistic about some applications of evolutionary psychology to ones own thinking. I think thinking in evolutionary psychology terms has helped me work out when I should pay more or less attention to my own feelings. If one is nervous about taking some minor social risk amongst strangers, it helps to know that this reaction made perfect sense in the EEA, but doesn’t now; you then can be confident that its safe to override your emotions.
What was the reason that Luke found for paying attention on fashion, that needed an insight into the reasons people care about fashion?
I would imagine it would depend on the image you’re trying to present. Like Luke said, it conveys “large packets of information about [him] at light speed.”
So, if you’re trying to show you have money you would dress one way, trying to look cool would require a different style of dressing, and just hanging casually with friends requires a third.
There is a tendency for many rationalists to try and look for a reason for peoples behaviour and, when failing to find it, to try and find an evo psych explanation for this behaviour.
Yes, I agree. I mostly use evo psych explanations to increase my internal probability of a PUA trick actually working, though I’m conservative about the credence I give to any evo psych explanation.
I’m curious about this. What was the reason that Luke found for paying attention on fashion, that needed an insight into the reasons people care about fashion? It seems to me that fashions importance depends primarily on how much other people care about it, irrespective of why they care, but I don’t understand fashion so could easily be missing something.
I think that part of my post was rather unclear. Of course, people on this site don’t consciously hold the view that people must make sense, but that nevertheless seems to be the direction of a lot of peoples thoughts. To clarify, what I was trying to state is that there is a tendency for many rationalists to try and look for a reason for peoples behaviour and, when failing to find it, to try and find an evo psych explanation for this behaviour. I may be wrong about this, but its something I’ve noticed in my own thoughts, and it seems to be echoed in what many other people here have written. Crucially, if my behaviour is similar to other peoples, a lot of the apparent benefit of learning the explanations for others behaviour is just in coming to accept it. It’s a lot easier to tolerate things about people you disagree with when you know why they’re doing it—even if your wrong about the reason. But, you can also just learn to accept people.
Of course, the assumption that peoples behaviour is a logical conclusion from evo psych is a much more justifiable one. But, even so, I’d challenge this one. Evolutionary psychology is not a scientific model in the same way that something like the standard model in Physics is; from what I know of it, it seems wholly unable to make any firm predictions on any aspect of human behaviour—it can just try and explain the behaviour of humans that is already observed. So, I suppose I’m still failing to see how knowing the evo psych explanation of something will really help you in interacting with others?
Having said this, I feel more optimistic about some applications of evolutionary psychology to ones own thinking. I think thinking in evolutionary psychology terms has helped me work out when I should pay more or less attention to my own feelings. If one is nervous about taking some minor social risk amongst strangers, it helps to know that this reaction made perfect sense in the EEA, but doesn’t now; you then can be confident that its safe to override your emotions.
I would imagine it would depend on the image you’re trying to present. Like Luke said, it conveys “large packets of information about [him] at light speed.” So, if you’re trying to show you have money you would dress one way, trying to look cool would require a different style of dressing, and just hanging casually with friends requires a third.
Yes, I agree. I mostly use evo psych explanations to increase my internal probability of a PUA trick actually working, though I’m conservative about the credence I give to any evo psych explanation.