Bees are more social than salmon. I haven’t put serious thought into it, but I can see an argument that sociality is an important factor in determining intensity-of-consciousness. (Perhaps because sociality requires complex neuron interactions that give rise to certain conscious experiences?)
Bees are at the other end, like ants, where they are so social that you have to start wondering where the individual bee ends and the hivemind begins. We go to those questions of how does consciousness relate simply to complexity of information processing vs integration.
This to me is one of those Hofstradterian arguments that sounds (and is) very clever and definitely is logically possible but doesn’t seem very likely to me when you look at it numerically. Not an expert, but as I understand it intra-bee communication still has many more bits than inter-bee communication, even among the most eusocial ones. So bees are much closer to comrades working together for a shared goal than individual cells in a human body, in terms of their individuality.
A fair point, but more relevant to the issue at hand is—is it sociality that gives rise to consciousness, or is it having to navigate social strategy? Even though there is likely no actual single “beehivemind”, so to speak, is consciousness more necessary when you’re so social that simply going along with very well established hierarchies and patterns of behaviour is all you need to do to do your part, or is it superfluous at that point since distinction between self and other and reflection on it aren’t all that important?
Bees are more social than salmon. I haven’t put serious thought into it, but I can see an argument that sociality is an important factor in determining intensity-of-consciousness. (Perhaps because sociality requires complex neuron interactions that give rise to certain conscious experiences?)
Bees are at the other end, like ants, where they are so social that you have to start wondering where the individual bee ends and the hivemind begins. We go to those questions of how does consciousness relate simply to complexity of information processing vs integration.
This to me is one of those Hofstradterian arguments that sounds (and is) very clever and definitely is logically possible but doesn’t seem very likely to me when you look at it numerically. Not an expert, but as I understand it intra-bee communication still has many more bits than inter-bee communication, even among the most eusocial ones. So bees are much closer to comrades working together for a shared goal than individual cells in a human body, in terms of their individuality.
A fair point, but more relevant to the issue at hand is—is it sociality that gives rise to consciousness, or is it having to navigate social strategy? Even though there is likely no actual single “beehivemind”, so to speak, is consciousness more necessary when you’re so social that simply going along with very well established hierarchies and patterns of behaviour is all you need to do to do your part, or is it superfluous at that point since distinction between self and other and reflection on it aren’t all that important?