I’m 22, male, a student and from Germany.
I’ve always tried to “perceive whatever holds the world together in its inmost folds”, to know the truth, to grok what is going on. Truth is the goal, and rationality the art of achieving it.
So for this reason alone lesswrong is quite appealing.
But in addition to that Yudkowsky and Bostrom convinced me that existential risks, transhumanism , the singularity, etc. are probably the most important issues of our time.
Furthermore this is the first community I’ve ever encountered in my life that makes me feel rather dumb. ( I can hardly follow the discussions about solomonoff induction, everett-branches and so on, lol, and I thought I was good at math because I was the best one in high school :-)
But, nonetheless being stupid is sometimes such a liberating feeling!
To spice this post with more gooey self-disclosure:
I was sort of a “mild” socialist for quite some time ( yeah, I know. But, there are some intelligent folks who were socialists, or sort-of-socialists like Einstein and Russell).
Now I’m more pro-capitalism, libertarian, but some serious doubts remain.
I’m really interested in neuropsychological research of mystic experiences. ( I think I share this personal idiosyncrasy with Sam Harris...)
I think many rational atheists ( myself included before I encountered LSD), underestimate the preposterous and life-transfomring power of mystic experiences, that can convert the most educated rationalist into a gibbering crackpot. It makes you think you really “know” that there is some divine and mysterious force at the deepest level of the universe, and the quest for understanding involves reading many, many absurd and completely useless books, and this endeavor may well destroy your whole life.
But mystic experiences, caused by psychedelics (or other neurological “happenings”), may well be one of the reasons why some highly intelligent people remain/ or become religious.
I can personally support this. I’ve never taken LSD or any other consciousness-altering drug, but I can trigger ecstatic, mystical “religious experiences” fairly easy in other ways; even just singing in a group setting will do it. I sing in an Anglican church choir and this weekend is Easter, so I expect to have quite a number of mystical experiences. At one point I attended a Pentecostal church regularly and was willing to put up with people who didn’t believe in evolution because group prayer inevitably triggered my “mystical experience” threshold. (My other emotions are also triggered easily: I laugh out loud when reading alone, cry out loud in sad books and movies, and feel overpowering warm fuzzies when in the presence of small children.)
I have done my share of reading “absurb and useless” books. Usually I found them, well, absurd and useless and pretty boring. I would rather read about the neurological underpinnings of my experience, especially since grokking science’s answers can sometimes trigger a near-mystical experience! (Happened several times while reading Richard Dawkins’ ‘The Selfish Gene’.)
In any case, I would like to hear more about your story, too.
I can trigger ecstatic, mystical “religious experiences” fairly easy in other ways; even just singing in a group setting will do it.
Wow, impressive that nevertheless you’ve managed to become a rationalist!
Now I would like to hear how you achieved this feat :-)
I would rather read about the neurological underpinnings of my experience, especially since grokking science’s answers can sometimes trigger a near-mystical experience!
I totally agree. Therefore neuroscience of “altered states of consiousness” is one of my pet subjects...
Wow, impressing that nevertheless you’ve managed to become a rationalist! Now I would like to hear how you achieved this feat :-)
Mainly by having read so much pop science and sci-fi as a kid that by the time the mystical-experience things happened in a religious context (at around 14, when I started singing in the choir and actually being exposed to religious memes) I was already a fairly firm atheist in a family of atheists. Before that, although I remember having vaguely spiritual experiences as a younger kid, they were mostly associated with stuff like looking at beautiful sunsets or swimming. And there’s the fact that I’m genuinely interesting in topics like physics, so I wasn’t going to restrict my reading list to New Age/religious books.
For “weltanschauung” (an English word), Wiktionary has, “a person’s or a group’s conception, philosophy or view of the world; a worldview”. Moreover (if you capitalize it) it means the same thing in German.
Hm, I don’t know.
Merely writing about the trip can never be as profound as the experience itself.
Read e.g. descriptions of experiences with meditation. They often sound just silly.
Furthermore there are enough trip-reports in the internet about experiences with psychedelic drugs, from people who can better write than I can, and who have more knowledge than I have.
If you are really interested in mystic or psychedelic experiences, you can go to Erowid , which is one of the best sites on the internet if you are interested in this stuff...
Oh,sorry, I see…
Well, overcoming this worldview consisted mainly of reading some sequences of Eliezer:-)
And remember that I wasn’t a New-Age crackpot. I had only very mild mystic experiences, but these alone lead me to question the nature of consiousness, the universe etc..
So for me it was not really difficult, but I imagine that really radical experiences make you “immune” to a naturalistic, atheistic explanation. I think Yvain made a similar experience with hashish (This post also convinced me that mystic experiences are only strange realignments of neurological processes )
Well, maybe I will write a post in the future that discusses risks and benefits of psychedelic drugs and meditation. But first I have to read the remaining sequences of Eliezer, which will be time-consuming enough:-)
hi everybody,
I’m 22, male, a student and from Germany. I’ve always tried to “perceive whatever holds the world together in its inmost folds”, to know the truth, to grok what is going on. Truth is the goal, and rationality the art of achieving it. So for this reason alone lesswrong is quite appealing.
But in addition to that Yudkowsky and Bostrom convinced me that existential risks, transhumanism , the singularity, etc. are probably the most important issues of our time.
Furthermore this is the first community I’ve ever encountered in my life that makes me feel rather dumb. ( I can hardly follow the discussions about solomonoff induction, everett-branches and so on, lol, and I thought I was good at math because I was the best one in high school :-) But, nonetheless being stupid is sometimes such a liberating feeling!
To spice this post with more gooey self-disclosure: I was sort of a “mild” socialist for quite some time ( yeah, I know. But, there are some intelligent folks who were socialists, or sort-of-socialists like Einstein and Russell). Now I’m more pro-capitalism, libertarian, but some serious doubts remain. I’m really interested in neuropsychological research of mystic experiences. ( I think I share this personal idiosyncrasy with Sam Harris...) I think many rational atheists ( myself included before I encountered LSD), underestimate the preposterous and life-transfomring power of mystic experiences, that can convert the most educated rationalist into a gibbering crackpot. It makes you think you really “know” that there is some divine and mysterious force at the deepest level of the universe, and the quest for understanding involves reading many, many absurd and completely useless books, and this endeavor may well destroy your whole life.
I can personally support this. I’ve never taken LSD or any other consciousness-altering drug, but I can trigger ecstatic, mystical “religious experiences” fairly easy in other ways; even just singing in a group setting will do it. I sing in an Anglican church choir and this weekend is Easter, so I expect to have quite a number of mystical experiences. At one point I attended a Pentecostal church regularly and was willing to put up with people who didn’t believe in evolution because group prayer inevitably triggered my “mystical experience” threshold. (My other emotions are also triggered easily: I laugh out loud when reading alone, cry out loud in sad books and movies, and feel overpowering warm fuzzies when in the presence of small children.)
I have done my share of reading “absurb and useless” books. Usually I found them, well, absurd and useless and pretty boring. I would rather read about the neurological underpinnings of my experience, especially since grokking science’s answers can sometimes trigger a near-mystical experience! (Happened several times while reading Richard Dawkins’ ‘The Selfish Gene’.)
In any case, I would like to hear more about your story, too.
Wow, impressive that nevertheless you’ve managed to become a rationalist! Now I would like to hear how you achieved this feat :-)
I totally agree. Therefore neuroscience of “altered states of consiousness” is one of my pet subjects...
Mainly by having read so much pop science and sci-fi as a kid that by the time the mystical-experience things happened in a religious context (at around 14, when I started singing in the choir and actually being exposed to religious memes) I was already a fairly firm atheist in a family of atheists. Before that, although I remember having vaguely spiritual experiences as a younger kid, they were mostly associated with stuff like looking at beautiful sunsets or swimming. And there’s the fact that I’m genuinely interesting in topics like physics, so I wasn’t going to restrict my reading list to New Age/religious books.
For “weltanschauung” (an English word), Wiktionary has, “a person’s or a group’s conception, philosophy or view of the world; a worldview”. Moreover (if you capitalize it) it means the same thing in German.
I think your experience deserves a narration in the discussion section.
Hm, I don’t know. Merely writing about the trip can never be as profound as the experience itself. Read e.g. descriptions of experiences with meditation. They often sound just silly. Furthermore there are enough trip-reports in the internet about experiences with psychedelic drugs, from people who can better write than I can, and who have more knowledge than I have. If you are really interested in mystic or psychedelic experiences, you can go to Erowid , which is one of the best sites on the internet if you are interested in this stuff...
I was referring not to the experience of your trip, but to the following battle you fought about overcoming the (almost) Absolute Bias...
Oh,sorry, I see… Well, overcoming this worldview consisted mainly of reading some sequences of Eliezer:-) And remember that I wasn’t a New-Age crackpot. I had only very mild mystic experiences, but these alone lead me to question the nature of consiousness, the universe etc.. So for me it was not really difficult, but I imagine that really radical experiences make you “immune” to a naturalistic, atheistic explanation.
I think Yvain made a similar experience with hashish (This post also convinced me that mystic experiences are only strange realignments of neurological processes ) Well, maybe I will write a post in the future that discusses risks and benefits of psychedelic drugs and meditation. But first I have to read the remaining sequences of Eliezer, which will be time-consuming enough:-)