First of all, thank you for the question. I found it thought provoking and will be thinking on it later.
Second of all, I want to let you know I am replacing all of the “Events which then get deleted with no observable consequence” as “Magical gibberish.” for part of my initial answer, because it feels like the dragon from http://lesswrong.com/lw/i4/belief_in_belief/ where there are no observable effects, regardless of how many years, simulated me’s, or simulated me years, you throw into it.
I also note that depends on whether or not I expect to make the choice repeatedly.
Ergo: I make the choice once:
1: Tortuous Magical Gibberish, and you get a billion dollars.
2: Blissful Magical Gibberish, and you get angry bees.
In that case the billion seems a fairly clear choice. But if you’re going to pull some sort of “Wait, before you open the box, I’m going to give you the same choice again, forever.” shenanigans, then the billion/hornets never is reachable and all I have left is never ending magical gibberish. In which case, I’ll take the Blissful magical gibberish, as opposed to the Torturous magical gibberish.
Oddly, I’d be more reluctant to take the billion if you said you were going to torture OTHER people, who weren’t me. I feel like that says something about my value system/thought processes, and I feel like I should subject that something to a closer look. It makes me feel like I might be saying “Well, I think I’m a P-zombie, and so I don’t matter, but other people really do have qualia, so I can’t torture them for a billion.” but maybe it’s just imagining what another person who didn’t accept my premises would say/do upon finding out about that I had made that choice, or perhaps it’s “Absolute denial macro: Don’t subject countless others to countless years of torture for personal gain even if it seems like the right thing to do.”
I’m not sure which if any of those is my true rejection, or even if I’d actually reject it.
As I said before though I’m still thinking about some of this and would not be surprised if there is a flaw somewhere in my thinking above.
Yes. My existence isn’t so important that it just carries on, magically effecting the world while also being defined as having no observable effects. In a billion years, either I have observable effects, or I don’t. If I don’t, then talking about a me existing makes no sense. How would you even define me any more? Any test you would run for “Did there used to be a Michaelos over there a billion years ago?” would give the exact same results whether or not there ever was one.
Hmm. I think the key question is “Are there observable effects from you torturing me?” when Omega did it, there weren’t. Where the observable effects would have occurred, I blinked, I.E, nothing happened.
I think this is distinct from you torturing me right now, because there would be observable effects, which would fade away into history slowly over time. Eventually, it wouldn’t be noteworthy any more, but that would take a long time to occur.
A big difference is that you can’t hit a “Reverse to Status Quo Ante” button, like Omega can, of course.
So, in the future, speaking of my life in particular will likely be gibberish, (I say likely because I am assuming I’m not important a billion years from now, which seems likely.) but it isn’t gibberish right now, might be a better way of putting it.
Not Michaelos, but in this sense, I would say that, yes, a billion years from now is magical gibberish for almost any decision you’d make today. I have the feeling you meant that the other way ’round, though.
First of all, thank you for the question. I found it thought provoking and will be thinking on it later.
Second of all, I want to let you know I am replacing all of the “Events which then get deleted with no observable consequence” as “Magical gibberish.” for part of my initial answer, because it feels like the dragon from http://lesswrong.com/lw/i4/belief_in_belief/ where there are no observable effects, regardless of how many years, simulated me’s, or simulated me years, you throw into it.
I also note that depends on whether or not I expect to make the choice repeatedly. Ergo: I make the choice once:
1: Tortuous Magical Gibberish, and you get a billion dollars.
2: Blissful Magical Gibberish, and you get angry bees.
In that case the billion seems a fairly clear choice. But if you’re going to pull some sort of “Wait, before you open the box, I’m going to give you the same choice again, forever.” shenanigans, then the billion/hornets never is reachable and all I have left is never ending magical gibberish. In which case, I’ll take the Blissful magical gibberish, as opposed to the Torturous magical gibberish.
Oddly, I’d be more reluctant to take the billion if you said you were going to torture OTHER people, who weren’t me. I feel like that says something about my value system/thought processes, and I feel like I should subject that something to a closer look. It makes me feel like I might be saying “Well, I think I’m a P-zombie, and so I don’t matter, but other people really do have qualia, so I can’t torture them for a billion.” but maybe it’s just imagining what another person who didn’t accept my premises would say/do upon finding out about that I had made that choice, or perhaps it’s “Absolute denial macro: Don’t subject countless others to countless years of torture for personal gain even if it seems like the right thing to do.”
I’m not sure which if any of those is my true rejection, or even if I’d actually reject it.
As I said before though I’m still thinking about some of this and would not be surprised if there is a flaw somewhere in my thinking above.
In a billion years your whole life might have no evidence of it ever happening. Does that mean it’s magical gibberish?
Yes. My existence isn’t so important that it just carries on, magically effecting the world while also being defined as having no observable effects. In a billion years, either I have observable effects, or I don’t. If I don’t, then talking about a me existing makes no sense. How would you even define me any more? Any test you would run for “Did there used to be a Michaelos over there a billion years ago?” would give the exact same results whether or not there ever was one.
So it makes no difference whether I torture you or not, because in a billion years no one will know?
“Makes no difference” to whom? Michaelos, or the hypothetical billion-years-later observer?
Hmm. I think the key question is “Are there observable effects from you torturing me?” when Omega did it, there weren’t. Where the observable effects would have occurred, I blinked, I.E, nothing happened.
I think this is distinct from you torturing me right now, because there would be observable effects, which would fade away into history slowly over time. Eventually, it wouldn’t be noteworthy any more, but that would take a long time to occur.
A big difference is that you can’t hit a “Reverse to Status Quo Ante” button, like Omega can, of course.
So, in the future, speaking of my life in particular will likely be gibberish, (I say likely because I am assuming I’m not important a billion years from now, which seems likely.) but it isn’t gibberish right now, might be a better way of putting it.
Would that make it more clear?
Not Michaelos, but in this sense, I would say that, yes, a billion years from now is magical gibberish for almost any decision you’d make today. I have the feeling you meant that the other way ’round, though.