The hypothesis I’m suggesting is that all of that evidence is only evidence when evaluated from the giddily-optimistic view of “what I could have done with all that time if I hadn’t wasted it”. Not from comparison with the accomplishments of a control group that didn’t waste their time.
Oh I see. Yes, that’s an important consideration. Not “wasting time” playing WoW doesn’t automatically dictate that you’re not gonna do some other “useless” activity or that you’re gonna get anywhere with any of your “important” projects.
So it’s a matter of what you’ll give up for it and what it’s upsides and downsides are. For me personally, it would almost definitely lead to less exercise, less face-to-face social interaction, less showers, less oral hygiene, less progress on projects that are deeply important to me, etc. I’ve been there (not WoW, but other addictive video games), and I don’t want to go back.
But it might be different for you. Maybe those things wouldn’t happen. Perhaps you wouldn’t care if they did. Etc. Need more context! Should you play WoW? In this thread, I gave you plenty of considerations that may or may not have been aware of (what you’re responding to right now plus an earlier comment). Ultimately though, we perhaps require more information about your situation.
For me: less music, earlier bed-times, less YouTube cycles, no junk food, no MMOs, etc; these all contribute to greater long-term happiness. But should my self of this moment even care about my selves of the long-term? Well, the question isn’t really should. The fact is that I seem to be hard-wired that way. I never do anything of mere transient enjoyment or long-term disadvantage without at least a twinge of FML.
The incoherence of our utility function is a direct result of how different indicators mis-align with each other and launch our different selves into an intractable civil war. If my different selves are prepared to carry out the conflict, there’s no way to say who’s “right” and who’s “wrong”; all we may say is that there’s a conflict of interests and there will be a winner and a loser.
But I don’t think it’s in the interest of any of my different selves to have this disharmony. Night guy would much prefer to be able to go to sleep early and enjoy it rather than hate sleeping and instead stay up super late, end up feeling like shit, feeling guilty, etc.
Maybe I’m rambling by now, but I’m just trying to shed some light on the usually mysterious phenomenon that you pointed out: the incoherence of our utility function. And I’m trying to explain what it means for our action, which is perhaps what you’re grappling with at the moment.
If people destroy their health for a game, to some extent that is evidence that the game is worth destroying their health for.
Akrasia is systematic failure; rationality is systematic winning.
Short-term, revealed preferences rarely tell us the whole story. Just because somebody destroyed their health for a game doesn’t mean that they didn’t experience intense, intermittent FML mode the whole time and the vague, trapped feeling so often associated with akrasia, and certainly doesn’t mean that they didn’t regret it later.
Or to use another example: If you are living in a crack neighborhood in Detroit and the best you have to look forward to is a life of poverty, about a third of which is spent in jail if you don’t get killed first, then maybe taking cocaine every day for a couple of years until it kills you really will give you a better life.
Yes. Could be the case. Would need more information about his utility function, though.
We have a deep-seated prejudice against admitting that might be the case.
Most perhaps do, but not me.
I have no problem admitting that for somebody with a different utility function than mine, it might be a good idea to do any variety of what I don’t: drugs, junk food, WoW, etc. I’m prepared to dive as deep into the rabbit hole of value subjectivism as you want.
Oh I see. Yes, that’s an important consideration. Not “wasting time” playing WoW doesn’t automatically dictate that you’re not gonna do some other “useless” activity or that you’re gonna get anywhere with any of your “important” projects.
So it’s a matter of what you’ll give up for it and what it’s upsides and downsides are. For me personally, it would almost definitely lead to less exercise, less face-to-face social interaction, less showers, less oral hygiene, less progress on projects that are deeply important to me, etc. I’ve been there (not WoW, but other addictive video games), and I don’t want to go back.
But it might be different for you. Maybe those things wouldn’t happen. Perhaps you wouldn’t care if they did. Etc. Need more context! Should you play WoW? In this thread, I gave you plenty of considerations that may or may not have been aware of (what you’re responding to right now plus an earlier comment). Ultimately though, we perhaps require more information about your situation.
For me: less music, earlier bed-times, less YouTube cycles, no junk food, no MMOs, etc; these all contribute to greater long-term happiness. But should my self of this moment even care about my selves of the long-term? Well, the question isn’t really should. The fact is that I seem to be hard-wired that way. I never do anything of mere transient enjoyment or long-term disadvantage without at least a twinge of FML.
The incoherence of our utility function is a direct result of how different indicators mis-align with each other and launch our different selves into an intractable civil war. If my different selves are prepared to carry out the conflict, there’s no way to say who’s “right” and who’s “wrong”; all we may say is that there’s a conflict of interests and there will be a winner and a loser.
But I don’t think it’s in the interest of any of my different selves to have this disharmony. Night guy would much prefer to be able to go to sleep early and enjoy it rather than hate sleeping and instead stay up super late, end up feeling like shit, feeling guilty, etc.
Maybe I’m rambling by now, but I’m just trying to shed some light on the usually mysterious phenomenon that you pointed out: the incoherence of our utility function. And I’m trying to explain what it means for our action, which is perhaps what you’re grappling with at the moment.
Akrasia is systematic failure; rationality is systematic winning.
Short-term, revealed preferences rarely tell us the whole story. Just because somebody destroyed their health for a game doesn’t mean that they didn’t experience intense, intermittent FML mode the whole time and the vague, trapped feeling so often associated with akrasia, and certainly doesn’t mean that they didn’t regret it later.
Yes. Could be the case. Would need more information about his utility function, though.
Most perhaps do, but not me.
I have no problem admitting that for somebody with a different utility function than mine, it might be a good idea to do any variety of what I don’t: drugs, junk food, WoW, etc. I’m prepared to dive as deep into the rabbit hole of value subjectivism as you want.