Of course, in this case (unlike with religion) you have a good reason to believe that your subjective personal conviction correlates with the truth—and even so you should be open to the possibility of being wrong.
From a religious person’s point of view, why do they not have a good reason to believe that their personal convictions don’t correlate with truth?
I was attempting to show that even with all the reasons taken away—with all the empirical evidence, with the experts telling him that his memories are false—with nothing left but his own naked feeling of conviction, a normal, healthy human being may very well retain his conviction.
Now, if a person wanted to state a reason for retaining his conviction, he might argue as follows: “this conviction in my own innocence is the consequence of the fact of my innocence, and is thus evidence of my innocence—the only evidence I have left”. If A tends to cause B and not-A tends to prevent B, then B is evidence (though not proof) of A. Our brains are built so that facts tend (however imperfectly) to cause beliefs in those facts. Thus, if we find in ourselves a belief in some fact, then this is evidence (however imperfect) that the fact is true.
This, however, is all after-the-fact reasoning to support the simple psychological phenomenon of retaining one’s own convictions. That phenomenon can be explained and justified, as I did in the paragraph above, but the phenomenon itself is simply the habit of sticking to one’s convictions, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. The phenomenon is stubbornness in one’s beliefs. Once one starts believing something, then one keeps believing it. Notice I’m not saying anything about this being a belief in a world they want to live in. I don’t think that stuff is essential. Once you have a belief, however you got it, you tend to stick to it, even when the evidence goes against it. It’s normal to do that. And, sometimes, it’s the right thing to do.
The fact that they’re better explained by other causes than the divine? The fact that people with similar experiences are objectively most likely to be factually incorrect in that specific domain? What good reason is there?
Edit: Consider all the people who have faith in some religion based on subjective personal conviction, and separate them into mutually exclusive groups. No one group is in the majority. Thus, your subjective personal conviction regarding religion is, best case scenario, more likely to be wrong than right.
I would say their criteria for a “better” explanation is different; they see an explanation as “better” if it implies the kind of world they want to live in. And of course that’s irrational, but I doubt it feels irrational from the inside.
Disappointing. If this is your reaction, my analogy failed. What I tried to create was a situation in which all you have is your conviction. I took away all your props, all the empirical evidence. All you have is your memory, which I argued here reduces to conviction, and I even threw in a battalion of experts telling you that your memories are false. My point is that with all this, with all the evidence pointing against his belief and with nothing left to him but his own conviction itself, a normal, healthy human being may very well maintain his conviction—in the face of everything.
Sorry! I think the analogy is great, though now I’m interested in asking a friend of mine to provide ones from his own (theistic) perspective. It might be stronger if there is no proposed mechanism for denial / false memories, and you’re just being accused of lying, perhaps?
It might be stronger if there is no proposed mechanism for denial / false memories, and you’re just being accused of lying, perhaps?
Maybe, though my purpose was to minimize your own reasons for being convinced of your own innocence. If other people are accusing you of lying, well, you know you’re not lying, so their accusations do not act to reduce your own basis for your convictions.
If we want to draw an analogy here between the innocent framed person and the religious person, we might compare the proposed mechanism for false memories with the mechanisms that the non-religious propose to explain why the religious believe what they do. For example, an atheist might say, “you only believe that because you were taught it when you were too young to resist indoctrination”. A psychologist might come up with an equally plausible explanation as to how you came to have a false memory of your innocence. In both cases, you (the religious person or the accused person) have these explanations purporting to explain and debunk your beliefs that you need to deal with one way or another.
Of course, in this case (unlike with religion) you have a good reason to believe that your subjective personal conviction correlates with the truth—and even so you should be open to the possibility of being wrong.
From a religious person’s point of view, why do they not have a good reason to believe that their personal convictions don’t correlate with truth?
I was attempting to show that even with all the reasons taken away—with all the empirical evidence, with the experts telling him that his memories are false—with nothing left but his own naked feeling of conviction, a normal, healthy human being may very well retain his conviction.
Now, if a person wanted to state a reason for retaining his conviction, he might argue as follows: “this conviction in my own innocence is the consequence of the fact of my innocence, and is thus evidence of my innocence—the only evidence I have left”. If A tends to cause B and not-A tends to prevent B, then B is evidence (though not proof) of A. Our brains are built so that facts tend (however imperfectly) to cause beliefs in those facts. Thus, if we find in ourselves a belief in some fact, then this is evidence (however imperfect) that the fact is true.
This, however, is all after-the-fact reasoning to support the simple psychological phenomenon of retaining one’s own convictions. That phenomenon can be explained and justified, as I did in the paragraph above, but the phenomenon itself is simply the habit of sticking to one’s convictions, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. The phenomenon is stubbornness in one’s beliefs. Once one starts believing something, then one keeps believing it. Notice I’m not saying anything about this being a belief in a world they want to live in. I don’t think that stuff is essential. Once you have a belief, however you got it, you tend to stick to it, even when the evidence goes against it. It’s normal to do that. And, sometimes, it’s the right thing to do.
The fact that they’re better explained by other causes than the divine? The fact that people with similar experiences are objectively most likely to be factually incorrect in that specific domain? What good reason is there?
Edit: Consider all the people who have faith in some religion based on subjective personal conviction, and separate them into mutually exclusive groups. No one group is in the majority. Thus, your subjective personal conviction regarding religion is, best case scenario, more likely to be wrong than right.
I would say their criteria for a “better” explanation is different; they see an explanation as “better” if it implies the kind of world they want to live in. And of course that’s irrational, but I doubt it feels irrational from the inside.
I agree. I guess I shouldn’t squint so hard at the analogy! :)
Disappointing. If this is your reaction, my analogy failed. What I tried to create was a situation in which all you have is your conviction. I took away all your props, all the empirical evidence. All you have is your memory, which I argued here reduces to conviction, and I even threw in a battalion of experts telling you that your memories are false. My point is that with all this, with all the evidence pointing against his belief and with nothing left to him but his own conviction itself, a normal, healthy human being may very well maintain his conviction—in the face of everything.
Sorry! I think the analogy is great, though now I’m interested in asking a friend of mine to provide ones from his own (theistic) perspective. It might be stronger if there is no proposed mechanism for denial / false memories, and you’re just being accused of lying, perhaps?
Maybe, though my purpose was to minimize your own reasons for being convinced of your own innocence. If other people are accusing you of lying, well, you know you’re not lying, so their accusations do not act to reduce your own basis for your convictions.
If we want to draw an analogy here between the innocent framed person and the religious person, we might compare the proposed mechanism for false memories with the mechanisms that the non-religious propose to explain why the religious believe what they do. For example, an atheist might say, “you only believe that because you were taught it when you were too young to resist indoctrination”. A psychologist might come up with an equally plausible explanation as to how you came to have a false memory of your innocence. In both cases, you (the religious person or the accused person) have these explanations purporting to explain and debunk your beliefs that you need to deal with one way or another.