These discussions are always difficult because they involve comparing movements and schools of thought rather than propositions. PUA culture definitely includes lots of people without especially misogynist ideas. But it also is going to include people who really do have anti-women sentiments.
Feminism is almost certainly more diverse. You seem more involved in those conversations than I am at this point so I’m sure you know this. So why do you think the feminist view on female match preferences is so contrary to the studies you list? I guess there are probably radical feminists who hold views about power dynamics in relationships which would contradict those studies- but surely liberal feminists (where I include myself) don’t give a shit about the mating preferences of anyone. Obviously there are views in both camps that can’t be reconciled, but I think the best of both can be.
Great blog btw. Is there a post or a series of posts that will summarize your criticisms of feminism? You list of agreements on the site is almost enough for me to want to count you as a feminist.
Here is an older post on my blog criticizing feminists who reduce women’s preferences down to a desire for “respect” from men, and who deny that there are salient sex differences in women’s preferences.
The same tropes came up in recent debate between feminists and PUAs, where the feminists denied that anything PUAs do is actually attractive to women. (Generalizing from their own preferences, with no references to any sort of empirical evidence.)
See my responses here, here, and here. There are a few more in the thread, too.
These discussions are always difficult because they involve comparing movements and schools of thought rather than propositions. PUA culture definitely includes lots of people without especially misogynist ideas. But it also is going to include people who really do have anti-women sentiments.
Feminism is almost certainly more diverse. You seem more involved in those conversations than I am at this point so I’m sure you know this. So why do you think the feminist view on female match preferences is so contrary to the studies you list? I guess there are probably radical feminists who hold views about power dynamics in relationships which would contradict those studies- but surely liberal feminists (where I include myself) don’t give a shit about the mating preferences of anyone. Obviously there are views in both camps that can’t be reconciled, but I think the best of both can be.
Great blog btw. Is there a post or a series of posts that will summarize your criticisms of feminism? You list of agreements on the site is almost enough for me to want to count you as a feminist.
Thanks… I plan on getting back to this post soon, either here or on my blog, and if I don’t feel free to bug me.
Just curious, did you ever followup on this?
I’m actually writing up some stuff for my blog that addresses these issues. I’ll link when it’s up.
Ok, here we go...
Here is an older post on my blog criticizing feminists who reduce women’s preferences down to a desire for “respect” from men, and who deny that there are salient sex differences in women’s preferences.
The same tropes came up in recent debate between feminists and PUAs, where the feminists denied that anything PUAs do is actually attractive to women. (Generalizing from their own preferences, with no references to any sort of empirical evidence.)
See my responses here, here, and here. There are a few more in the thread, too.