As for what to do, am I not doing exactly the right thing my alerting women to the toxic incentive structure they create by this practice and what arguably underlies many of the ills of men they complain about, but for which few of them ever make the connection? That’s the first step on the road genuine progress in this area, don’t you think?
As you have experienced, being given advice without recognition of the difficulties and costs of following it is not necessarily useful.
I will tentatively suggest two reasons (in addition to the possibility that many women just like being dominated)-- one is that a lot of women are unsure of their own desires in regards to men, and afraid to act on them if they know what they are.
The other is being afraid that telling a persistent man to go away and meaning it is actually dangerous.
To the extent that either motive is in play, it would take a great deal of work for women to change what they’re doing.
As you have experienced, being given advice without recognition of the difficulties and costs of following it is not necessarily useful.
Point taken, though I’d note that it’s equally unuseful for women to complain about aggressive behavior from men without recognizing the position they put men in with inconsistent treatment of persistence.
I will tentatively suggest two reasons (in addition to the possibility that many women just like being dominated)-- one is that a lot of women are unsure of their own desires in regards to men, and afraid to act on them if they know what they are.
This would just as well be a reason to offer greater understanding to men who are too persistent, as they have no way of knowing if that persistence is wanted.
The other is being afraid that telling a persistent man to go away and meaning it is actually dangerous.
lmnop was making a similar point, and I don’t understand it. If women reject men in more cases than they really want (and this is apparent from those like SarahC and LauraABJ who merrily encourage men to keep trying, and ridicule men who don’t), then it means their incentives to turn men down is too high. It can’t explain why women are too reluctant to reject.
What about consistency bias? A person might end up remembering an encounter as more romantic/intimate if she were involved in physically intimate acts and hadn’t screamed “rape;” so if a guy takes any less than the maximum of liberties he could without provoking objection, he’s left some potential attraction on the table.
That’s an additional possibility, but I’m not feeling particularly sympathetic to that hypothetical man.
What I’m apt to see is accounts by women who have to work to figure out whether some sexual situation that they didn’t like (or worse) was bad enough for them to feel justified in not liking it.
As you have experienced, being given advice without recognition of the difficulties and costs of following it is not necessarily useful.
I will tentatively suggest two reasons (in addition to the possibility that many women just like being dominated)-- one is that a lot of women are unsure of their own desires in regards to men, and afraid to act on them if they know what they are.
The other is being afraid that telling a persistent man to go away and meaning it is actually dangerous.
To the extent that either motive is in play, it would take a great deal of work for women to change what they’re doing.
Point taken, though I’d note that it’s equally unuseful for women to complain about aggressive behavior from men without recognizing the position they put men in with inconsistent treatment of persistence.
This would just as well be a reason to offer greater understanding to men who are too persistent, as they have no way of knowing if that persistence is wanted.
lmnop was making a similar point, and I don’t understand it. If women reject men in more cases than they really want (and this is apparent from those like SarahC and LauraABJ who merrily encourage men to keep trying, and ridicule men who don’t), then it means their incentives to turn men down is too high. It can’t explain why women are too reluctant to reject.
What about consistency bias? A person might end up remembering an encounter as more romantic/intimate if she were involved in physically intimate acts and hadn’t screamed “rape;” so if a guy takes any less than the maximum of liberties he could without provoking objection, he’s left some potential attraction on the table.
That’s an additional possibility, but I’m not feeling particularly sympathetic to that hypothetical man.
What I’m apt to see is accounts by women who have to work to figure out whether some sexual situation that they didn’t like (or worse) was bad enough for them to feel justified in not liking it.