Yeah I have a lot (that’s why in the first place I don’t really know where to start.)
Now sometimes there are direct tradeoffs, like @Cole Wyeth mentioned in this comment about UFC fights. In fact, men frequently take on dangerous jobs because it earns them respect. Big game hunting was perhaps the original dangerous job for humans, as was war. In modern times men do things like risk their financial safety for a shot at high variance gains
men frequently take on dangerous jobs because it earns them respect
Besides the definition that I disagree on respect, I also disagree even if that word is replaced by “validation”. Whether people choose to do something according to social approval or not is independent of gender. The problem is what society consider as socially approvable behavior for certain groups. If as a society people approve men to be more prudent in taking risks, are you saying men still “want” to take risks? In other words the point I am getting at is, if for women, the socially approvable behavior is to take less risks, and for men the socially approvable behavior is to take more risks, then for a women and a men who choose to conform to these expectations, they are both asking for validation.
They won’t get lots of respect as an individual as a nurse, paralegal, etc
To clarify: what you mean by individually nurse and paralegal are respected? You seem to have an assumption that more risks means more “respect” which is circling back to my disagreement on the definition.
All people, if they can, want to thrive, granted if they are able to. For example, RBG need to fight for a lot of cases where schools do not admit women, or west point do not admit women. “Want” is a way too strong of a word. I would suggest something more along the lines of “historically women may be forced to pursue more risk averse options for reasons xxxx during time period A to Z, and this need to change”, if “women ending up in more risk averse options” is true for some time A to Z.
(I have a bit more to say as well but will probably come back to this later).
Besides the definition that I disagree on respect, I also disagree even if that word is replaced by “validation”. Whether people choose to do something according to social approval or not is independent of gender. The problem is what society consider as socially approvable behavior for certain groups. If as a society people approve men to be more prudent in taking risks, are you saying men still “want” to take risks? In other words the point I am getting at is, if for women, the socially approvable behavior is to take less risks, and for men the socially approvable behavior is to take more risks, then for a women and a men who choose to conform to these expectations, they are both asking for validation.
Yes, it seems you have some idea about what “respect” means that’s the source of the disagreement. I think you are somehow failing to grasp the full nature of respect and keep looking at it in narrow ways (or that’s how I would classify what’s happening).
It doesn’t mean the same thing as “validation” because “validation” is more generic. A woman might be validated by the acceptance of her friends. A man might be validated by the respect he receives from others.
I’m not sure how much help I can be here. Dictionaries don’t do a great job of explaining all the nuance of what the word “respect” means or what it means in the context of this post. It’s a word that points to a kind of status acknowledgement between people. I didn’t mean any of this to be complicated. If you are missing some intuition for what I mean by “respect” that’s a bit outside the scope of what I wanted to write here (I’m not saying it’s wrong to not share my intuition, just that I probably don’t have time or energy to teach the intuition that most readers seem to share with me.).
I unfortunately had the same feeling that you had the concept of respect wrong, and lacking of the understanding of the underlying social aspect of risk averse vs risk taking in this post, and felt didn’t have enough time yet to educate. Sorry for the bluntness.
I could only maybe say—as a woman I could try to say is we want basic respect (which any decent human should get), impact, power, authority, influence, winning, fights, adventures, becoming better versions of oneself as much as non-woman, but if you as non-women and strongly believe that’s not true I am not sure how much better I could approach the problem/dispute. (As you hinted in the post you might be overestimating how much you know about the population you are making a claim on.)
Yeah I have a lot (that’s why in the first place I don’t really know where to start.)
I have replied to this from the DM with Cole, and posted below. See the comment here: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9jhrWnxYkoZPxMZMj/women-want-safety-men-want-respect?commentId=TvjJd2gKfewbR6v8a
Besides the definition that I disagree on respect, I also disagree even if that word is replaced by “validation”. Whether people choose to do something according to social approval or not is independent of gender. The problem is what society consider as socially approvable behavior for certain groups. If as a society people approve men to be more prudent in taking risks, are you saying men still “want” to take risks? In other words the point I am getting at is, if for women, the socially approvable behavior is to take less risks, and for men the socially approvable behavior is to take more risks, then for a women and a men who choose to conform to these expectations, they are both asking for validation.
To clarify: what you mean by individually nurse and paralegal are respected? You seem to have an assumption that more risks means more “respect” which is circling back to my disagreement on the definition.
All people, if they can, want to thrive, granted if they are able to. For example, RBG need to fight for a lot of cases where schools do not admit women, or west point do not admit women. “Want” is a way too strong of a word. I would suggest something more along the lines of “historically women may be forced to pursue more risk averse options for reasons xxxx during time period A to Z, and this need to change”, if “women ending up in more risk averse options” is true for some time A to Z.
(I have a bit more to say as well but will probably come back to this later).
Yes, it seems you have some idea about what “respect” means that’s the source of the disagreement. I think you are somehow failing to grasp the full nature of respect and keep looking at it in narrow ways (or that’s how I would classify what’s happening).
It doesn’t mean the same thing as “validation” because “validation” is more generic. A woman might be validated by the acceptance of her friends. A man might be validated by the respect he receives from others.
I’m not sure how much help I can be here. Dictionaries don’t do a great job of explaining all the nuance of what the word “respect” means or what it means in the context of this post. It’s a word that points to a kind of status acknowledgement between people. I didn’t mean any of this to be complicated. If you are missing some intuition for what I mean by “respect” that’s a bit outside the scope of what I wanted to write here (I’m not saying it’s wrong to not share my intuition, just that I probably don’t have time or energy to teach the intuition that most readers seem to share with me.).
I unfortunately had the same feeling that you had the concept of respect wrong, and lacking of the understanding of the underlying social aspect of risk averse vs risk taking in this post, and felt didn’t have enough time yet to educate. Sorry for the bluntness.
I could only maybe say—as a woman I could try to say is we want basic respect (which any decent human should get), impact, power, authority, influence, winning, fights, adventures, becoming better versions of oneself as much as non-woman, but if you as non-women and strongly believe that’s not true I am not sure how much better I could approach the problem/dispute. (As you hinted in the post you might be overestimating how much you know about the population you are making a claim on.)