I would expect to see a rational discussion of the benefits and trade-offs involved, in such a way as to let me evaluate, based on my utility function, whether this is a good investment for me.
Instead, I primarily see almost a “reversed stupidity” discussion, combined with what seems like in-group signalling: “See all these arguments against cryonics? They are all irrational, as I have now demonstrated. QED cryonics is rational, and you should signal your conformity to the Rationality Tribe by signing up today!”
I can totally understand why it’s presented this way, but it reads off as “hype” because I almost never encounter anything else. It all seems to just naively assume that “preserving my individual life at any cost is a perfectly rational decision.” Maybe that really is all the thought that goes in to it; if your utility function places a suitably high value on self-preservation, then there’s not really a lot of further discussion required.
But I get the sense that there are deeper thoughts that just never get discussed, because everyone is busy fighting against the nay-sayers. There’s a deep absence of arguments for cryonics, especially ones that actually take in to consideration social policy, and what else could be accomplished for $200K.
(Eliezer hinted at it, with his comments about economies of scale, but it was a mere footnote, and quite possibly the first time I’ve seen anyone discuss the issue from that perspective even briefly)
It’s more that all the arguments I see are aimed at a different audience (cryonics skeptics). I do not take this as very strong evidence of irrationality. On the other hand, anyone who posts here, I take that as decent evidence of rationality, especially people like Eliezer. So I assume with a high probability that either the people espousing it have a different utility function than I, or are simply not talking about the other half of the argument. I’m assuming that there is a rational reason, but objecting because I don’t feel anyone is trying to rationally explain it to me :)
Loosely, in my head, there’s the idea of a “negative” argument, which is just rebutting your opponent, or a “positive” argument which actually looks at the advantages of your position. I see hype, in-group signalling, and “negative” arguments. I’m interested in seeing some “positive” ones.
As far as evidence, I did actually just put up a post discussing specifically the “economies of scale” argument. It is thus far the only “positive” argument I’ve heard for it, aside from the (IMO) very weak argument of “who doesn’t want immortality?” (I find it weak specifically because it ignores both availability and price, and glosses over how reliability is affected by those two factors as well)
I would expect to see a rational discussion of the benefits and trade-offs involved, in such a way as to let me evaluate, based on my utility function, whether this is a good investment for me.
Instead, I primarily see almost a “reversed stupidity” discussion, combined with what seems like in-group signalling: “See all these arguments against cryonics? They are all irrational, as I have now demonstrated. QED cryonics is rational, and you should signal your conformity to the Rationality Tribe by signing up today!”
I can totally understand why it’s presented this way, but it reads off as “hype” because I almost never encounter anything else. It all seems to just naively assume that “preserving my individual life at any cost is a perfectly rational decision.” Maybe that really is all the thought that goes in to it; if your utility function places a suitably high value on self-preservation, then there’s not really a lot of further discussion required.
But I get the sense that there are deeper thoughts that just never get discussed, because everyone is busy fighting against the nay-sayers. There’s a deep absence of arguments for cryonics, especially ones that actually take in to consideration social policy, and what else could be accomplished for $200K.
(Eliezer hinted at it, with his comments about economies of scale, but it was a mere footnote, and quite possibly the first time I’ve seen anyone discuss the issue from that perspective even briefly)
Looks like you’ve just found another way of saying “you’re all irrational!” without providing evidence.
It’s more that all the arguments I see are aimed at a different audience (cryonics skeptics). I do not take this as very strong evidence of irrationality. On the other hand, anyone who posts here, I take that as decent evidence of rationality, especially people like Eliezer. So I assume with a high probability that either the people espousing it have a different utility function than I, or are simply not talking about the other half of the argument. I’m assuming that there is a rational reason, but objecting because I don’t feel anyone is trying to rationally explain it to me :)
Loosely, in my head, there’s the idea of a “negative” argument, which is just rebutting your opponent, or a “positive” argument which actually looks at the advantages of your position. I see hype, in-group signalling, and “negative” arguments. I’m interested in seeing some “positive” ones.
As far as evidence, I did actually just put up a post discussing specifically the “economies of scale” argument. It is thus far the only “positive” argument I’ve heard for it, aside from the (IMO) very weak argument of “who doesn’t want immortality?” (I find it weak specifically because it ignores both availability and price, and glosses over how reliability is affected by those two factors as well)
Hopefully that was clearer!