We observe that Petunia says took a potion that made her sick for weeks then she became beautiful. (Chapter 1)
“Anyway,” Petunia said, her voice small, “she gave in. She told me it was dangerous, and I said I didn’t care any more, and I drank this potion and I was sick for weeks, but when I got better my skin cleared up and I finally filled out and… I was beautiful, people were nice to me,” her voice broke, “and after that I couldn’t hate my sister any more, especially when I learned what her magic brought her in the end—”
We observed that it Harry thinks her beauty is a sign of magic and deduced that it was extremely rare and dangerous. (Chapter 36)
“Harry?” called a thin, blonde woman whose perfectly smooth and unblemished skin made her look a good deal younger than thirty-three; and Harry realized with a start that it was magic, he hadn’t known the signs before but he could see them now. And whatever sort of potion lasted that long, it must have been terribly dangerous, because most witches didn’t do that to themselves, they weren’t that desperate...
We observe that Dumbledore admits to writing into Lily’s potion notes. Specifically he claims he wrote notes regarding a potion of Eagle’s Splendor that includes a modification where you get sick for weeks and is very dangerous. (Chapter 17)
“Do you see these notes,” Dumbledore said in a voice so low it was almost a whisper, “written in the margins of the book?”
Harry squinted slightly. The yellowing pages seemed to be describing something called a potion of eagle’s splendor, many of the ingredients being items that Harry didn’t recognize at all and whose names didn’t appear to derive from English. Scrawled in the margin was a handwritten annotation saying, I wonder what would happen if you used Thestral blood here instead of blueberries? and immediately beneath was a reply in different handwriting, You’d get sick for weeks and maybe die.
“I see them,” said Harry. “What about them?”
Dumbledore pointed to the second scrawl. “The ones in this handwriting,” he said, still in that low voice, “were written by your mother. And the ones in this handwriting,” moving his finger to indicate the first scrawl, “were written by me. I would turn myself invisible and sneak into her dorm room while she was sleeping. Lily thought one of her friends was writing them and they had the most amazing fights.”
We observe that Harry and Eliezer are familiar with Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (chapter 3); although Harry may not be familiar with this particular potion (D&D 3.0 came out in 2000). Eliezer uses the words “Eagle’s Splendor” when that already is a well defined term in D&D. (From the D&D SRD)
Eagle’s Splendor
The transmuted creature becomes more poised, articulate, and personally forceful. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, adding the usual benefits to Charisma-based skill checks and other uses of the Charisma modifier. Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase.
Now, it is possible that Petunia and/or Dumbledore are both lying and/or false memory charmed. We do only observe them saying things and not the actions themselves. It could also be coincidence that Eliezer used “Eagle’s Splendor” as a borrowed keyword or he may be trying to mislead us. But these all require an unnecessary addition to our theory.
I suspect we’re supposed to go with the obvious answer. The answer that these people are not lying or memory charmed: Lily gave an unusual beauty potion to Petunia; Dumbledore wrote in the margins about a modification to a beauty potion; the side effects for both unusual potions were the same. Ergo Dumbledore, as Lily’s potion confidants, helped her come up with the components of Lily’s unusual beauty potion.
If you have other observations or come to a different conclusion, feel free to share it. But absent of further evidence, I consider it obvious that Dumbledore helped Lily devise the potion and that Eliezer waned this to be obvious to us, rather than a mysterious secret. Do you come to a different, less wild hypothesis, given these observations?
Upvoted for geek scholarship. Also, Thestral hair is used in the Elder Wand, and IIRC the Cloak of Invisibility is mentioned at least in MoR to be marked with Thestral blood. (The Stone is said to be marked, but I don’t remember if it’s mentioned with what.)
The Hallows have all sorts of attributes related to permanency, or power over decay: being “invincible” means (more-or-less) your shields aren’t broken and your attacks aren’t stopped, the wand is able to repair broken wands, the cloak hides from death (it also looks like new from the descriptions), the stone brings back “souls”, and owning all of them makes you “Master of Death”.
In the twisted logic of magic, I could see Thestral blood making the effect of a potion permanent (or at least for life) rather than time-limited like most potions seem to be. (Transfiguration needs to be maintained, Polyjuice needs to be taken periodically, and the D&D Eagle’s Splendor has defined duration.)
I apologize. A took it as an insult and responded inappropriately.
I know this theory has been explained in past discussion threads and assumed anyone who cares (wow that’s a loaded phrase!) would have already known it. Even though it could be 5000+ posts of writing. In retrospect, that was clearly unreasonably of me.
In the future, it would make sense for someone to post a catalog of all the non-obvious insights in HPMoR. I know there are others, but my mind simply labels everything everything I know regarding HPMoR as ‘obvious’ since I already know it.
That seems pretty convincing to me. I had never heard of eagle’s splendor before so I wasn’t able to put the pieces together. But now I’m wondering, since we just learned the major principle of potions: how exactly does thestral blood help one become beautiful? Thestrals in canon are invisible and their blood confers invisibility (or was that MoR? they’re getting mixed up in my head so much these days), so wouldn’t such a potion render Petunia invisible? Useful for many things, perhaps, but being beautiful does not seem to be one of the things helped by being invisible.
(Or under the ‘releasing’ sort of mechanism, thestral blood… releases death? Makes one younger? But Petunia was already young.)
In canon, the Elder Wand has a thestral tail-hair core; in MoR,
And Harry knew, now, that the concealment of the Cloak was more than the mere transparency of Disillusionment, that the Cloak kept you hidden and not just invisible, as unseeable as were Thestrals to the unknowing. And Harry also knew that it was Thestral blood which painted the symbol of the Deathly Hallows on the inside of the Cloak, binding into the Cloak that portion of Death’s power, enabling the Cloak to confront the Dementors on their own level and block them. It had felt like guessing, and yet a certain guess, the knowledge coming to him in the instant of solving the riddle.
Maybe the thestral blood added permanence, because death is permanent? If it was replacing blueberries I doubt it was the key magical ingredient, and so its effect may not be directly related to its properties.
ETA: And also that’s why this version of the potion so much more dangerous. It has Death in it.
ETA: And also that’s why this version of the potion so much more dangerous. It has Death in it.
Yes, definitely. But it must be very dilute death or it’d just be a stupid potion. Dumbledore may feel guilty over such dangerous ‘help’ but he wouldn’t make a suggestion guaranteed to fail.
Maybe the thestral blood added permanence, because death is permanent?
That’s just crazy enough to work, but to continue the vein of thought, if thestral blood conferred permanence on all sorts of potions, you’d expect it either to be a deep wizarding secret Dumbledore wouldn’t give any schoolgirl or to be used in lots of other contexts—anything you want a potion to be permanent. (Maybe witches aren’t desperate enough to risk Petunia’s potion… but how about Felix felicis? We saw what one day on FF could do, imagine an entire lifetime!)
Invisibility cloaks in canon are supposed to be made from demiguise hairs or enchanted, and not usually made out of thestral components even though thestrals are invisible. The true Cloak of Invisibility may be using the thestral blood for permanence as well. Most cloaks of invisibility fade and weaken with time until they are useless; until Harry discovered a secret use, the primary difference of Harry’s cloak was it’s ability to last for so long.
In canon, people are extremely prejudiced and superstitious against thestrals. They also share the same XXXX classification as trolls, according to Quirrel “the third most perfect killing machine in all of Nature.” This means they’re probably illegal to handle or acquire without ministry supervision. I would guess that most people don’t have the means or desire to experiment with thestral blood.
Lastly, Felix Felicis is a super finicky potion. It is toxic in large quantities, difficult to brew, and dangerous to get wrong. The inclusion of thestral blood made an ordinary (well, 5th year) beauty potion extremely dangerous; people may not want to risk making it even more dangerous.
Although, all of these are just speculation so take with a grain of salt. But it would explain how thestral ingredients grant permanence, but aren’t used commonly.
The true Cloak of Invisibility may be using the thestral blood for permanence as well. Most cloaks of invisibility fade and weaken with time until they are useless; until Harry discovered a secret use, the primary difference of Harry’s cloak was it’s ability to last for so long.
IIRC, both canon & MoR flat out says that the Cloak is more than a merely unfading ordinary invisibility cloak, but grants hiddenness and protection on a deeper level than them. It differs in both quality and quantity, you might say.
I would guess that most people don’t have the means or desire to experiment with thestral blood.
One might say the same thing of using or researching dragon blood. And yet...
Lastly, Felix Felicis is a super finicky potion. It is toxic in large quantities, difficult to brew, and dangerous to get wrong.
Everything is toxic in large quantities, and the difficulties & danger of preparation apply to, well, the preparation, not the end product. (This actually makes it an even better potion to make permanent with thestral blood.)
Ah yes. I should have said the most easily noticeable aspect of the cloak. I meant in canon that’s what tipped them off.
One might say the same thing of using or researching dragon blood. And yet...
You know, it feels significant that Dumbledore loves to experiment with and discover new uses for other species blood, but I’ll be darned if I can figure it out.
Dumbledore is a secret vampire. The reason he couldn’t defeat Grindlewald earlier was because he was flat out unable until he made a bargain with a dark power and gained the strength of Vampirism.
Most people don’t know how potions work. I think it’d be safe to tell someone to add thestral blood without telling them what for, and if they’re someone as mundane as Lily Potter they would never figure it out.
Except that Lily did figure out what the substitution would do. She immediately figured out that it would make the subject sick and might be deadly, and she eventually figured out that it would make the change permanent (or whatever good thing it did) and would probably not be quite deadly.
We observe that Petunia says took a potion that made her sick for weeks then she became beautiful. (Chapter 1)
We observed that it Harry thinks her beauty is a sign of magic and deduced that it was extremely rare and dangerous. (Chapter 36)
We observe that Dumbledore admits to writing into Lily’s potion notes. Specifically he claims he wrote notes regarding a potion of Eagle’s Splendor that includes a modification where you get sick for weeks and is very dangerous. (Chapter 17)
We observe that Harry and Eliezer are familiar with Advanced Dungeons and Dragons (chapter 3); although Harry may not be familiar with this particular potion (D&D 3.0 came out in 2000). Eliezer uses the words “Eagle’s Splendor” when that already is a well defined term in D&D. (From the D&D SRD)
Now, it is possible that Petunia and/or Dumbledore are both lying and/or false memory charmed. We do only observe them saying things and not the actions themselves. It could also be coincidence that Eliezer used “Eagle’s Splendor” as a borrowed keyword or he may be trying to mislead us. But these all require an unnecessary addition to our theory.
I suspect we’re supposed to go with the obvious answer. The answer that these people are not lying or memory charmed: Lily gave an unusual beauty potion to Petunia; Dumbledore wrote in the margins about a modification to a beauty potion; the side effects for both unusual potions were the same. Ergo Dumbledore, as Lily’s potion confidants, helped her come up with the components of Lily’s unusual beauty potion.
If you have other observations or come to a different conclusion, feel free to share it. But absent of further evidence, I consider it obvious that Dumbledore helped Lily devise the potion and that Eliezer waned this to be obvious to us, rather than a mysterious secret. Do you come to a different, less wild hypothesis, given these observations?
Upvoted for geek scholarship. Also, Thestral hair is used in the Elder Wand, and IIRC the Cloak of Invisibility is mentioned at least in MoR to be marked with Thestral blood. (The Stone is said to be marked, but I don’t remember if it’s mentioned with what.)
The Hallows have all sorts of attributes related to permanency, or power over decay: being “invincible” means (more-or-less) your shields aren’t broken and your attacks aren’t stopped, the wand is able to repair broken wands, the cloak hides from death (it also looks like new from the descriptions), the stone brings back “souls”, and owning all of them makes you “Master of Death”.
In the twisted logic of magic, I could see Thestral blood making the effect of a potion permanent (or at least for life) rather than time-limited like most potions seem to be. (Transfiguration needs to be maintained, Polyjuice needs to be taken periodically, and the D&D Eagle’s Splendor has defined duration.)
Thank you for explaining your reasoning. Upvoted.
May I note that you hadn’t explained it previously, and that not all of us are D&D gamers that we would automatically know what Eagle’s Splendor was?
I apologize. A took it as an insult and responded inappropriately.
I know this theory has been explained in past discussion threads and assumed anyone who cares (wow that’s a loaded phrase!) would have already known it. Even though it could be 5000+ posts of writing. In retrospect, that was clearly unreasonably of me.
In the future, it would make sense for someone to post a catalog of all the non-obvious insights in HPMoR. I know there are others, but my mind simply labels everything everything I know regarding HPMoR as ‘obvious’ since I already know it.
I’m reminded of the sequences on Inferential Distance.
That seems pretty convincing to me. I had never heard of eagle’s splendor before so I wasn’t able to put the pieces together. But now I’m wondering, since we just learned the major principle of potions: how exactly does thestral blood help one become beautiful? Thestrals in canon are invisible and their blood confers invisibility (or was that MoR? they’re getting mixed up in my head so much these days), so wouldn’t such a potion render Petunia invisible? Useful for many things, perhaps, but being beautiful does not seem to be one of the things helped by being invisible.
(Or under the ‘releasing’ sort of mechanism, thestral blood… releases death? Makes one younger? But Petunia was already young.)
In canon, the Elder Wand has a thestral tail-hair core; in MoR,
Maybe the thestral blood added permanence, because death is permanent? If it was replacing blueberries I doubt it was the key magical ingredient, and so its effect may not be directly related to its properties.
ETA: And also that’s why this version of the potion so much more dangerous. It has Death in it.
Yes, definitely. But it must be very dilute death or it’d just be a stupid potion. Dumbledore may feel guilty over such dangerous ‘help’ but he wouldn’t make a suggestion guaranteed to fail.
That’s just crazy enough to work, but to continue the vein of thought, if thestral blood conferred permanence on all sorts of potions, you’d expect it either to be a deep wizarding secret Dumbledore wouldn’t give any schoolgirl or to be used in lots of other contexts—anything you want a potion to be permanent. (Maybe witches aren’t desperate enough to risk Petunia’s potion… but how about Felix felicis? We saw what one day on FF could do, imagine an entire lifetime!)
Invisibility cloaks in canon are supposed to be made from demiguise hairs or enchanted, and not usually made out of thestral components even though thestrals are invisible. The true Cloak of Invisibility may be using the thestral blood for permanence as well. Most cloaks of invisibility fade and weaken with time until they are useless; until Harry discovered a secret use, the primary difference of Harry’s cloak was it’s ability to last for so long.
In canon, people are extremely prejudiced and superstitious against thestrals. They also share the same XXXX classification as trolls, according to Quirrel “the third most perfect killing machine in all of Nature.” This means they’re probably illegal to handle or acquire without ministry supervision. I would guess that most people don’t have the means or desire to experiment with thestral blood.
Lastly, Felix Felicis is a super finicky potion. It is toxic in large quantities, difficult to brew, and dangerous to get wrong. The inclusion of thestral blood made an ordinary (well, 5th year) beauty potion extremely dangerous; people may not want to risk making it even more dangerous.
Although, all of these are just speculation so take with a grain of salt. But it would explain how thestral ingredients grant permanence, but aren’t used commonly.
IIRC, both canon & MoR flat out says that the Cloak is more than a merely unfading ordinary invisibility cloak, but grants hiddenness and protection on a deeper level than them. It differs in both quality and quantity, you might say.
One might say the same thing of using or researching dragon blood. And yet...
Everything is toxic in large quantities, and the difficulties & danger of preparation apply to, well, the preparation, not the end product. (This actually makes it an even better potion to make permanent with thestral blood.)
Ah yes. I should have said the most easily noticeable aspect of the cloak. I meant in canon that’s what tipped them off.
You know, it feels significant that Dumbledore loves to experiment with and discover new uses for other species blood, but I’ll be darned if I can figure it out.
Dumbledore is a secret vampire. The reason he couldn’t defeat Grindlewald earlier was because he was flat out unable until he made a bargain with a dark power and gained the strength of Vampirism.
No, the blood sacrifices were made to slake Dumbledore’s vile thirst. After they stopped, well...
Most people don’t know how potions work. I think it’d be safe to tell someone to add thestral blood without telling them what for, and if they’re someone as mundane as Lily Potter they would never figure it out.
Except that Lily did figure out what the substitution would do. She immediately figured out that it would make the subject sick and might be deadly, and she eventually figured out that it would make the change permanent (or whatever good thing it did) and would probably not be quite deadly.