Why do the wizards use three different ways of teleportation? And how to they chose which one to use? Both in cannon and in MoR. There is aparation, floo powder and portkeys.
Floo powder requires a fireplace connected to the Ministry-supervised system. It’s meant to be secure enough that it can connect locations where wards would prevent you from just Apparating there (like people’s homes and Hogwarts) Apparation requires being an licenced wizard and (in HPMoR atleast) you can only visit places where you’ve already been. Portkeys can take you to new locations, and only need expertise in their creation, not their usage, but each portkey can only take you to a specific location.
The above are differences enough that you can see why different forms of transportation would be preferable under different scenarios.
Floo powder — Not tiring, can be used by unqualified wizards, but prone to error, and having a limited set of possible destinations.
Apparation — Highly flexible and requiring little setup time, but unpleasant, and only able to be performed by wizards of age.
Portkeys — Can be used to control the precise destination and time of teleporting, even to places where other modes of transport are forbidden. Can be used by unqualified wizards.
Side-along Apparation was a later invention by Rowling that negates some of the above logic and screws up some of her plots from earlier books. I would be happy to see Eliezer regard it as impossible in this story.
(I say Apparation instead of Apparition, as the former makes more sense and was the original term Rowling used, before (I presume) an editor made her change it in a later book, which contained many more instances of the word than she’d used before.)
(EDIT: Very sorry about the double post; I meant to edit my original comment, but apparently I clicked Reply and then pasted in my comment which I had copied to the clipboard in case of failed submission. Yeesh.)
Not sure about Side-Alonging, but apparently in MoR it’s possible to apparate inanimate objects without a wizard going with them:
They were inside Hogwarts so they couldn’t automatically Apparate out any material that showed signs of spontaneous combustion
Off-topic: when looking up previous instances of apparation I found something funny.
Moody had once seen an addicted Dark Wizard go to ridiculous lengths to get a victim to lay hands on a certain exact portkey, instead of just having someone toss the target a trapped Knut on their next visit to town;
Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah:
Harry was wondering exactly how they’d get there when Professor Quirrell said “Catch!” and threw a bronze Knut at him, and Harry caught it without thinking.
A giant intangible hook caught at Harry’s abdomen and yanked him back, hard, only without any sense of acceleration, and an instant later Harry was standing in the middle of Diagon Alley.
Yes, Eliezer made a great deal of noise in that Moody scene about the preposterousness of the whole Goblet of Fire plot. I happen to think it makes a good deal of sense if you use implicit clues elsewhere from the novels. Fudge starts to yell at Dumbledore in book 5 about creating an unauthorized Portkey on a whim. If it’s illegal to do that, it stands to reason that either the Ministry or Hogwarts might be able to detect unauthorized Portkeys.
So to get a Portkey near Harry surreptitiously, they had to cast a second Portus charm on an existing Portkey. The Triwizard Cup was supposed to be a Portkey to the maze entrance so as to declare the winner of the tournament. Crouch/Moody cast a second Portus on it to send Harry to the graveyard. Portus charms stack on top of each other, first-in first-out, so the second touch upon it activated the first charm, whose destination was the maze entrance.
None of this is stated explicitly, but almost all of it is implied with various levels of directness.
Yes, Eliezer made a great deal of noise in that Moody scene about the preposterousness of the whole Goblet of Fire plot.
That’s, by the way, a rather obvious criticism for Goblet of Fire, which I think I’ve heard several times independently (before HPMoR was written) and I came up with it myself after I read the book.
There are ways it can be made to make sense, as you say, but it’s still highly criticisable that the readers need to invent justifications like “fake-Moody needed to hijack a preexisting Ministry-approved Portkey” when JKR herself could have done inserted such a sentence for explanation.
It’s still be a rather stupidly elaborate plot, mind you. Just not as preposterous as before.
I also read a theory somewhere (can’t remember where) that if, in canon, Voldemort had killed Harry in the graveyard as intended, he and his crew could use the portkey’s return trip in order to wreak havoc upon Hogwarts; they can’t just apparate in, and all the ministry officials would be trapped there for them to slaughter, without escape routes.
Quirrell has tossed things to people who caught it without thinking at other times in the story. One example is in chapter 70, in which he is holding what is alleged to be a S.P.H.E.W. button and responding to Hermione’s explanation of what it takes to be a hero (specifically rather than ambition):
“You may be right about that,” said the Defense Professor, his eyes half-lidded. He tossed Hermione the button, and she caught it without thinking. “My donation to your cause, Miss Granger. I understand that they are worth two Sickles.”
In addition to questions about what that button might actually be and where it might come up later, including this current arc, there’s the point that Quirrell doesn’t seem to ever let anyone touch him. He does end up touching people in the Standford Prison Experiment arc, so it’s not that he can’t touch anyone. I expect it’s just to cover for the fact that he really can’t touch HJPEV.
Quirrell has tossed things to people who caught it without thinking at other times in the story.
I’m imagining him doing this a lot, for no real reason other than to amuse himself at the possibilities. I bet he’s in the habit of using magic to catch things moving toward him, too.
there’s the point that Quirrell doesn’t seem to ever let anyone touch him. He does end up touching people in the Standford Prison Experiment arc, so it’s not that he can’t touch anyone. I expect it’s just to cover for the fact that he really can’t touch HJPEV.
I thought that myself. (Plus I would expect him to be less than enthused about touching other people anyway.)
Floo powder — Not tiring, can be used by unqualified wizards, but prone to error, and can only lead somewhere with an approved fireplace.
Apparation — Highly flexible and requiring little setup time, but unpleasant, and can only be performed by wizards of age.
Portkeys — Can be used to control the precise destination and time of teleporting, even to places where other modes of transport are forbidden, and can be used by unqualified wizards; therefore, highly regulated by the Ministry.
Side-along Apparation was a later invention by Rowling that negates some of the above logic and screws up some of her plots from earlier books. I would be happy to see Eliezer regard it as impossible in this story.
(I say Apparation instead of Apparition, as the former makes more sense and was the original term Rowling used, before (I presume) an editor made her change it in a later book, which contained many more instances of the word than she’d used before.)
Thank you for the clarification. I got to think a bit about the transportation modes used in HP, and found them inconsistent. They use a train to go to Howarts, have this nightbus system, while also having teleportation. It seemed a bit inconsistent, but I probably over thought it.
No, you’re right. Partly this is due to the fact that the multiple methods were invented over a several-year period as the books were being written, but consider: Hogsmeade is within walking distance of Hogwarts. It is a wizarding village- people live there. We are given every indication that the Hogwarts Express is mandatory for all students. So kids who live in Hogsmeade have to travel all the way to London and spend most of a day on a train to get back to where they started from.
What happens when one of the shopkeepers has a kid, they move away? Anyway, it’s the only all-wizarding village on the island. You can wear robes and cast magic in the streets. Either the property values are through the roof, or… I don’t know or. It’s pretty much gotta be highly desirable real estate.
The rich (Malfoys, Blacks) have manors out in the country or in a big city; the poor (Weasleys, Gaunts) have shacks held together by magic on the outskirts of small muggle towns. The middle class has to live somewhere.
Maybe Hogsmeade kids are too poor to afford to go to Howgarts.
In canon, nobody is too poor to attend Hogwarts. When Riddle (Voldemort) is offered admission to Hogwarts, he tells Dumbledore that he has no money:
“That is easily remedied,” said Dumbledore, drawing a leather money-pouch from his pocket. “There is a fund at Hogwarts for those who require assistance to buy books and robes. You might have to buy some of your spellbooks and so on secondhand, but —” (274).
There’s no mention of tuition, so I’m guessing that’s free.
Why do the wizards use three different ways of teleportation? And how to they chose which one to use? Both in cannon and in MoR. There is aparation, floo powder and portkeys.
Floo powder requires a fireplace connected to the Ministry-supervised system. It’s meant to be secure enough that it can connect locations where wards would prevent you from just Apparating there (like people’s homes and Hogwarts)
Apparation requires being an licenced wizard and (in HPMoR atleast) you can only visit places where you’ve already been.
Portkeys can take you to new locations, and only need expertise in their creation, not their usage, but each portkey can only take you to a specific location.
The above are differences enough that you can see why different forms of transportation would be preferable under different scenarios.
Floo powder — Not tiring, can be used by unqualified wizards, but prone to error, and having a limited set of possible destinations.
Apparation — Highly flexible and requiring little setup time, but unpleasant, and only able to be performed by wizards of age.
Portkeys — Can be used to control the precise destination and time of teleporting, even to places where other modes of transport are forbidden. Can be used by unqualified wizards.
Side-along Apparation was a later invention by Rowling that negates some of the above logic and screws up some of her plots from earlier books. I would be happy to see Eliezer regard it as impossible in this story.
(I say Apparation instead of Apparition, as the former makes more sense and was the original term Rowling used, before (I presume) an editor made her change it in a later book, which contained many more instances of the word than she’d used before.)
(EDIT: Very sorry about the double post; I meant to edit my original comment, but apparently I clicked Reply and then pasted in my comment which I had copied to the clipboard in case of failed submission. Yeesh.)
Not sure about Side-Alonging, but apparently in MoR it’s possible to apparate inanimate objects without a wizard going with them:
Off-topic: when looking up previous instances of apparation I found something funny.
Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah:
Yes, Eliezer made a great deal of noise in that Moody scene about the preposterousness of the whole Goblet of Fire plot. I happen to think it makes a good deal of sense if you use implicit clues elsewhere from the novels. Fudge starts to yell at Dumbledore in book 5 about creating an unauthorized Portkey on a whim. If it’s illegal to do that, it stands to reason that either the Ministry or Hogwarts might be able to detect unauthorized Portkeys.
So to get a Portkey near Harry surreptitiously, they had to cast a second Portus charm on an existing Portkey. The Triwizard Cup was supposed to be a Portkey to the maze entrance so as to declare the winner of the tournament. Crouch/Moody cast a second Portus on it to send Harry to the graveyard. Portus charms stack on top of each other, first-in first-out, so the second touch upon it activated the first charm, whose destination was the maze entrance.
None of this is stated explicitly, but almost all of it is implied with various levels of directness.
That’s, by the way, a rather obvious criticism for Goblet of Fire, which I think I’ve heard several times independently (before HPMoR was written) and I came up with it myself after I read the book.
There are ways it can be made to make sense, as you say, but it’s still highly criticisable that the readers need to invent justifications like “fake-Moody needed to hijack a preexisting Ministry-approved Portkey” when JKR herself could have done inserted such a sentence for explanation.
It’s still be a rather stupidly elaborate plot, mind you. Just not as preposterous as before.
I also read a theory somewhere (can’t remember where) that if, in canon, Voldemort had killed Harry in the graveyard as intended, he and his crew could use the portkey’s return trip in order to wreak havoc upon Hogwarts; they can’t just apparate in, and all the ministry officials would be trapped there for them to slaughter, without escape routes.
Uh, yeah. I was just remarking that Moody and Quirrell seem to have remarkably similar thought processes, right down to the denomination of coin used.
The idea is meant to be obvious, to anyone who’s at all devious. I’d be more confused if they didn’t both think of it.
As far as denomination, it just makes sense to use the smallest coin.
How about stealing one of the bazillion portkeys being used internationally to get wizards to the World Cup?
Quirrell has tossed things to people who caught it without thinking at other times in the story. One example is in chapter 70, in which he is holding what is alleged to be a S.P.H.E.W. button and responding to Hermione’s explanation of what it takes to be a hero (specifically rather than ambition):
In addition to questions about what that button might actually be and where it might come up later, including this current arc, there’s the point that Quirrell doesn’t seem to ever let anyone touch him. He does end up touching people in the Standford Prison Experiment arc, so it’s not that he can’t touch anyone. I expect it’s just to cover for the fact that he really can’t touch HJPEV.
I’m imagining him doing this a lot, for no real reason other than to amuse himself at the possibilities. I bet he’s in the habit of using magic to catch things moving toward him, too.
I thought that myself. (Plus I would expect him to be less than enthused about touching other people anyway.)
Floo powder — Not tiring, can be used by unqualified wizards, but prone to error, and can only lead somewhere with an approved fireplace.
Apparation — Highly flexible and requiring little setup time, but unpleasant, and can only be performed by wizards of age.
Portkeys — Can be used to control the precise destination and time of teleporting, even to places where other modes of transport are forbidden, and can be used by unqualified wizards; therefore, highly regulated by the Ministry.
Side-along Apparation was a later invention by Rowling that negates some of the above logic and screws up some of her plots from earlier books. I would be happy to see Eliezer regard it as impossible in this story.
(I say Apparation instead of Apparition, as the former makes more sense and was the original term Rowling used, before (I presume) an editor made her change it in a later book, which contained many more instances of the word than she’d used before.)
Thank you for the clarification. I got to think a bit about the transportation modes used in HP, and found them inconsistent. They use a train to go to Howarts, have this nightbus system, while also having teleportation. It seemed a bit inconsistent, but I probably over thought it.
No, you’re right. Partly this is due to the fact that the multiple methods were invented over a several-year period as the books were being written, but consider: Hogsmeade is within walking distance of Hogwarts. It is a wizarding village- people live there. We are given every indication that the Hogwarts Express is mandatory for all students. So kids who live in Hogsmeade have to travel all the way to London and spend most of a day on a train to get back to where they started from.
Seems to be just a ritual.
Do any kids live in Hogsmeade? I don’t recall it ever being mentioned. Maybe Hogsmeade kids are too poor to afford to go to Howgarts.
What happens when one of the shopkeepers has a kid, they move away? Anyway, it’s the only all-wizarding village on the island. You can wear robes and cast magic in the streets. Either the property values are through the roof, or… I don’t know or. It’s pretty much gotta be highly desirable real estate.
The rich (Malfoys, Blacks) have manors out in the country or in a big city; the poor (Weasleys, Gaunts) have shacks held together by magic on the outskirts of small muggle towns. The middle class has to live somewhere.
In canon, nobody is too poor to attend Hogwarts. When Riddle (Voldemort) is offered admission to Hogwarts, he tells Dumbledore that he has no money:
There’s no mention of tuition, so I’m guessing that’s free.
thanks! I guess that just leaves us with the theory that there were no Hogsmeade kids in Harry’s interaction circle in the books?