Thanks for your post! Do you have any recommendations on practice which would lead to Stream Entry? Or some “one-shot” material. Anything you may find of value.
I’m working on a koan and have similar issues with sensory overload. It makes life sometimes unbearable. The practice led to some results in the past. I’ve probably had a kenshō in which everything including the subject-object duality has disappeared into one dark luminous field of awareness which was a manifestation of stillness and care, but I could not stay there long as ego reappeared. And I could not repeat the experience since then. Had a couple more “no self” experiences which lasted from 5 minutes to an hour. But could not replicate them either. So I think the practice has become stalled. It probably even become worse as thoughts run galore (I think it’s connected with overly active DMN in my case).
So I’m on crossroads thinking whether I should keep going with the koan no matter what (and there is a strong tendency to do that) or try some other stuff (tried basic breathing meditation and it seemed to work). I’ve verified that it all is not mumbo-jumbo stuff, the problem is how to shut down the DMN and reach that state permanently.
In addition, how do you recognize that you’ve reached Access Concentration? In my case, I think when thoughts practically stop (which happens rarely) and there is a feeling of serenity and equanimity that’s basically it. But I could not reach it each time I sit. Would you please comment on that and how do you generally reach it?
What type of meditation do you do / have you done?
How long have you been doing it for (both time per sit and calendar time)?
What books and other material have you read?
What have you tried that you like and dislike?
Until then, here are a few tips. Please consider this comment to be general guidelines, as mystic insights are easy to miscommunicate.
Set up a video call with this teacher. He is legit. You can set up a video call with me too, if you like.
Don’t attempt to consciously shut down your DMN. Don’t even worry about it. Getting into a state where the DMN is shut down by default temporarily feels like a side effect of concentration. Changing the DMN’s default state comes from insight and/or mindful living practice, not mere concentration. Even people with normal DMNs feel like thoughts are running galore when they begin meditation. This is normal.
Did a teacher you respect give you the koan? If not, I recommend against koan practice entirely. (If you like koan practice and feel koan practice is working for you, then disregard this bullet point.)
If you have a mystic experience and then it goes away due to something like “I could not stay there long as ego reappeared”, that isn’t a failure of the practice. It actually means things are going correctly, because it is giving you insight into what your ego is and how it operates.
If possible, find a local community of good practitioners who do lots of sitting (not too many trappings of religion) and who don’t ring any culty[1] alarm bells. They can be any denomination.
Here are some good books to read.
The Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice, and Enlightenment by Philip Kapleau Roshi
Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
Dewdrops on a Lotus Leaf: Zen Poems of Ryokan translated by John Stevens
In addition, how do you recognize that you’ve reached Access Concentration?… Would you please comment on that and how do you generally reach it?
Your description of access concentration seems correct to me.
When I was starting (first few years) I could hit it after about 30 minutes of sitting. I sit in my best approximation of full lotus position (moving my legs if I was worried about joint damage) and gently bring my attention to my breath at the base of my nostrils. When my attention drifts, I bring it back. I get my best results in Zendo and in a quiet park on a nice day, but can do whenever just to get the hours in. Meditating on the lightrail (when I was going somewhere anywhere) has been helpful too, even though it is difficult to achieve access concentration on it.
It also helps to do few days of meditation in a row. If I did 45 minutes of meditation every day, then access concentration might show up around the 30 minute mark of the third day.
If you’re having trouble with access concentration, then I recommend doing your meditation with eyes open. Pick a point to look at and don’t divert your eyes from there.
Finally, a warning: This meditation stuff can make sensory overload worse [for months] before it makes it better.
Here are some culty alarm bells I have encountered. ① A glass case with the leader’s book on a stand inside to best display his photogenic face on the cover and a photo of that same leader on the wall that you literally look up to for inspiration like Kim Il Sung. ② Claims that the leader has special insight you can’t find elsewhere.
What type of meditation do you do / have you done?
Currently: self-inquiry practice, sometimes meditation on breathing. Previously: meditation on breathing, mindfulness meditation.
How long have you been doing it for (both time per sit and calendar time)?
Since 2013. 1-3hr per day (no more than 1hr per sit).
What books and other material have you read?
Too many to mention. I’ve read the first two books from your list. I will list books that affected me deeply and directed/direct the practice: - Ramana Maharshi: Who am I?, Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, The Collected Works, Day by Day with Bhagavan, etc., all books by him or about him. - Philip Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen. Bassui’s letters are all gold! - Gary Weber: Happiness Beyond Thought, Dancing Beyond Thought, Evolving Beyond Thought. - Krishnamurti Jiddu: Commentaries on Living, Krishnamurti to Himself, Krishnamurti’s Journal, A Wholly Different Way of Living, etc., many books and videos. - Chögyam Trungpa: The Sanity We Are Born With, Meditation in Action, The Sacred Path of the Warrior, Smile at Fear, The Mishap Lineage: Transforming Confusion into Wisdom, etc., many entry books on basic sitting meditation and Dharma in simple terms. - Nisargadatta Maharaj: I am That. - Nāgārjuna: The Ornament of Reason (translation by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru), The Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way (translation by Jay Garfield), Letter to a Friend, Precious Garland. Used for reflection. - Longchenpa: The Precious Treasury of The Way of Abiding, The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena, The Precious Treasury of Pith Instructions, etc. - Alfred Korzybski:Science and Sanity, Manhood of Humanity, etc. Used for reflection. - Alexander Piatigorsky: The Buddhist Philosophy of Thought, Symbol and Consciousness, etc. Used for reflection. - Henepola Gunaratana: Mindfulness in Plain English.
What have you tried that you like and dislike? - mindfulness meditation[1]: it worked in the beginning, was reaching Access Concentration, but now I lose interest quickly; - repetition of mantras and looking for the source where they come from: worked during really dark times, but now feels off; - chanting: working but I take it more like a plaything; - meditation on breathing[2]: it works leading to Access Concentration, ok with it; - self-inquiry[3]: grappling with it, previously led to mystical experiences, sometimes hits “the sweet spot” and Access Concentration, can do it while walking, waiting in queues, etc, it’s my preferred practice as I deeply resonate with the question; - relaxing into awareness[4]: it does miracles when it works, but it’s not consistent and depends on external factors (like the state of the mind and weather); - just sitting (shikantaza): as a rule it doesn’t work but occasionally it hits “the sweet spot”, i.e. Access Concentration; - counting breaths[5]: it works and leads to Access Concentration; - kirtan kriya[6]: it works for short periods of time (like 15 minutes), gets to Access Concentration quickly;
Set up a video call with this teacher. He is legit. You can set up a video call with me too, if you like.
Thank you for your kindness! I’ll keep that in mind.
Don’t attempt to consciously shut down your DMN. Don’t even worry about it. Getting into a state where the DMN is shut down by default temporarily feels like a side effect of concentration. Changing the DMN’s default state comes from insight and/or mindful living practice, not mere concentration. Even people with normal DMNs feel like thoughts are running galore when they begin meditation. This is normal.
I have a medical condition which I’m uncomfortable of sharing but which suggests that the DMN is overly active in my case. In practice it means more self-rumination and less clarity.
Did a teacher you respect give you the koan? If not, I recommend against koan practice entirely. (If you like koan practice and feel koan practice is working for you, then disregard this bullet point.)
Yes, Gary Weber in personal correspondence suggested me to continue with the koan/self-inquiry and also suggested a mantra/breathing practice to switch gears.
If you have a mystic experience and then it goes away due to something like “I could not stay there long as ego reappeared”, that isn’t a failure of the practice. It actually means things are going correctly, because it is giving you insight into what your ego is and how it operates.
If possible, find a local community of good practitioners who do lots of sitting (not too many trappings of religion) and who don’t ring any culty alarm bells. They can be any denomination.
It’s problematic where I live.
Finally, a warning: This meditation stuff can make sensory overload worse [for months] before it makes it better.
“As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, “To whom has this thought arisen?” The answer that would emerge would be “to me”. Thereupon if one inquires “Who am I?”, the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source.” / Ramana Maharshi, Who am I?
Thanks for your post! Do you have any recommendations on practice which would lead to Stream Entry? Or some “one-shot” material. Anything you may find of value.
I’m working on a koan and have similar issues with sensory overload. It makes life sometimes unbearable. The practice led to some results in the past. I’ve probably had a kenshō in which everything including the subject-object duality has disappeared into one dark luminous field of awareness which was a manifestation of stillness and care, but I could not stay there long as ego reappeared. And I could not repeat the experience since then. Had a couple more “no self” experiences which lasted from 5 minutes to an hour. But could not replicate them either. So I think the practice has become stalled. It probably even become worse as thoughts run galore (I think it’s connected with overly active DMN in my case).
So I’m on crossroads thinking whether I should keep going with the koan no matter what (and there is a strong tendency to do that) or try some other stuff (tried basic breathing meditation and it seemed to work). I’ve verified that it all is not mumbo-jumbo stuff, the problem is how to shut down the DMN and reach that state permanently.
In addition, how do you recognize that you’ve reached Access Concentration? In my case, I think when thoughts practically stop (which happens rarely) and there is a feeling of serenity and equanimity that’s basically it. But I could not reach it each time I sit. Would you please comment on that and how do you generally reach it?
Can you tell me more about your practice?
Do you have a teacher?
What type of meditation do you do / have you done?
How long have you been doing it for (both time per sit and calendar time)?
What books and other material have you read?
What have you tried that you like and dislike?
Until then, here are a few tips. Please consider this comment to be general guidelines, as mystic insights are easy to miscommunicate.
Set up a video call with this teacher. He is legit. You can set up a video call with me too, if you like.
Don’t attempt to consciously shut down your DMN. Don’t even worry about it. Getting into a state where the DMN is shut down by default temporarily feels like a side effect of concentration. Changing the DMN’s default state comes from insight and/or mindful living practice, not mere concentration. Even people with normal DMNs feel like thoughts are running galore when they begin meditation. This is normal.
Did a teacher you respect give you the koan? If not, I recommend against koan practice entirely. (If you like koan practice and feel koan practice is working for you, then disregard this bullet point.)
If you have a mystic experience and then it goes away due to something like “I could not stay there long as ego reappeared”, that isn’t a failure of the practice. It actually means things are going correctly, because it is giving you insight into what your ego is and how it operates.
If possible, find a local community of good practitioners who do lots of sitting (not too many trappings of religion) and who don’t ring any culty[1] alarm bells. They can be any denomination.
Here are some good books to read.
The Three Pillars of Zen: Teaching, Practice, and Enlightenment by Philip Kapleau Roshi
Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
Dewdrops on a Lotus Leaf: Zen Poems of Ryokan translated by John Stevens
Your description of access concentration seems correct to me.
When I was starting (first few years) I could hit it after about 30 minutes of sitting. I sit in my best approximation of full lotus position (moving my legs if I was worried about joint damage) and gently bring my attention to my breath at the base of my nostrils. When my attention drifts, I bring it back. I get my best results in Zendo and in a quiet park on a nice day, but can do whenever just to get the hours in. Meditating on the lightrail (when I was going somewhere anywhere) has been helpful too, even though it is difficult to achieve access concentration on it.
It also helps to do few days of meditation in a row. If I did 45 minutes of meditation every day, then access concentration might show up around the 30 minute mark of the third day.
If you’re having trouble with access concentration, then I recommend doing your meditation with eyes open. Pick a point to look at and don’t divert your eyes from there.
Finally, a warning: This meditation stuff can make sensory overload worse [for months] before it makes it better.
Here are some culty alarm bells I have encountered. ① A glass case with the leader’s book on a stand inside to best display his photogenic face on the cover and a photo of that same leader on the wall that you literally look up to for inspiration like Kim Il Sung. ② Claims that the leader has special insight you can’t find elsewhere.
Thank you for your kindness and time!
Do you have a teacher?
No. It’s impossible to find one where I am.
What type of meditation do you do / have you done?
Currently: self-inquiry practice, sometimes meditation on breathing. Previously: meditation on breathing, mindfulness meditation.
How long have you been doing it for (both time per sit and calendar time)?
Since 2013. 1-3hr per day (no more than 1hr per sit).
What books and other material have you read?
Too many to mention. I’ve read the first two books from your list. I will list books that affected me deeply and directed/direct the practice:
- Ramana Maharshi: Who am I?, Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, The Collected Works, Day by Day with Bhagavan, etc., all books by him or about him.
- Philip Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen. Bassui’s letters are all gold!
- Gary Weber: Happiness Beyond Thought, Dancing Beyond Thought, Evolving Beyond Thought.
- Krishnamurti Jiddu: Commentaries on Living, Krishnamurti to Himself, Krishnamurti’s Journal, A Wholly Different Way of Living, etc., many books and videos.
- Chögyam Trungpa: The Sanity We Are Born With, Meditation in Action, The Sacred Path of the Warrior, Smile at Fear, The Mishap Lineage: Transforming Confusion into Wisdom, etc., many entry books on basic sitting meditation and Dharma in simple terms.
- Nisargadatta Maharaj: I am That.
- Nāgārjuna: The Ornament of Reason (translation by Mabja Jangchub Tsondru), The Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way (translation by Jay Garfield), Letter to a Friend, Precious Garland. Used for reflection.
- Longchenpa: The Precious Treasury of The Way of Abiding, The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena, The Precious Treasury of Pith Instructions, etc.
- Alfred Korzybski: Science and Sanity, Manhood of Humanity, etc. Used for reflection.
- Alexander Piatigorsky: The Buddhist Philosophy of Thought, Symbol and Consciousness, etc. Used for reflection.
- Henepola Gunaratana: Mindfulness in Plain English.
What have you tried that you like and dislike?
- mindfulness meditation[1]: it worked in the beginning, was reaching Access Concentration, but now I lose interest quickly;
- repetition of mantras and looking for the source where they come from: worked during really dark times, but now feels off;
- chanting: working but I take it more like a plaything;
- meditation on breathing[2]: it works leading to Access Concentration, ok with it;
- self-inquiry[3]: grappling with it, previously led to mystical experiences, sometimes hits “the sweet spot” and Access Concentration, can do it while walking, waiting in queues, etc, it’s my preferred practice as I deeply resonate with the question;
- relaxing into awareness[4]: it does miracles when it works, but it’s not consistent and depends on external factors (like the state of the mind and weather);
- just sitting (shikantaza): as a rule it doesn’t work but occasionally it hits “the sweet spot”, i.e. Access Concentration;
- counting breaths[5]: it works and leads to Access Concentration;
- kirtan kriya[6]: it works for short periods of time (like 15 minutes), gets to Access Concentration quickly;
Set up a video call with this teacher. He is legit. You can set up a video call with me too, if you like.
Thank you for your kindness! I’ll keep that in mind.
Don’t attempt to consciously shut down your DMN. Don’t even worry about it. Getting into a state where the DMN is shut down by default temporarily feels like a side effect of concentration. Changing the DMN’s default state comes from insight and/or mindful living practice, not mere concentration. Even people with normal DMNs feel like thoughts are running galore when they begin meditation. This is normal.
I have a medical condition which I’m uncomfortable of sharing but which suggests that the DMN is overly active in my case. In practice it means more self-rumination and less clarity.
Did a teacher you respect give you the koan? If not, I recommend against koan practice entirely. (If you like koan practice and feel koan practice is working for you, then disregard this bullet point.)
Yes, Gary Weber in personal correspondence suggested me to continue with the koan/self-inquiry and also suggested a mantra/breathing practice to switch gears.
If you have a mystic experience and then it goes away due to something like “I could not stay there long as ego reappeared”, that isn’t a failure of the practice. It actually means things are going correctly, because it is giving you insight into what your ego is and how it operates.
If possible, find a local community of good practitioners who do lots of sitting (not too many trappings of religion) and who don’t ring any culty alarm bells. They can be any denomination.
It’s problematic where I live.
Finally, a warning: This meditation stuff can make sensory overload worse [for months] before it makes it better.
Yeah, that point is loud and clear to me.
Simply coming back to awareness when noticing thoughts.
Coming back to breathing when noticing thoughts.
“As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, “To whom has this thought arisen?” The answer that would emerge would be “to me”. Thereupon if one inquires “Who am I?”, the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will become quiescent. With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source.” / Ramana Maharshi, Who am I?
Simply letting go all strife and practices and abiding in awareness. I have distilled it from Longchenpa and Dzogchen.
Counting breaths every inhale and exhale, or just exhales.
Kirtan Kriya by Gary Weber.
[Note to readers: This conversation has been continued elsewhere on a private channel.]