there really is a substantial fraction of what self-identifies as the “social justice” movement, primarily in an online context, that really is toxic, and that the rest of the left and the serious, sane part of the SJers aren’t doing enough to call them out on it
Minus the online bit, this is fully generalizable against any political group, (and a lot of non-political groups as well). Which groups do you choose to lambast for “not calling out toxic members of that group”? Presumably the groups that you don’t like. This is the art of politics.
“I don’t have a problem with X group, but you have to agree that the subset Y of them are really horrible so lets continue to talk about how horrible they are” is Dark Arts to the max.
Which groups do you choose to lambast for “not calling out toxic members of that group”? Presumably the groups that you don’t like.
This is a accurate description of a common political behavior.
But recognizing this doesn’t mean that all groups must actually have symmetrically malign subgroups, or that the mainstream in every group has the same relationship towards these subgroups. You can support the mainstream positions of both group A and group B, but be more critical of group B due to the existence of a subgroup you consider malign.
You can support the mainstream positions of both group A and group B, but be more critical of group B due to the existence of a subgroup you consider malign.
Yes of course, and most political (or other) groups are filled to the brim with self criticism. And this is very difficult to confuse with the phenomenon I am describing. In particular, if you only ever talk about how horrible subgroup B is and never suggest ways of improving the movement and you use the same language to describe subgroup B and the movement at large then you are probably engaged in politics and not constructive criticism.
This is a good example of in group criticism. The author calls out members of his political affiliation for making a stupid argument, presents an alternative framework for understanding the issue and moves on.
Repeatedly talking about how horrible subgroup B is not an example of in group criticism.
Meta-level point: out group criticism can be well reasoned and valuable. It is more often a politicized rhetorical weapon. The phenomenon I am describing is usually the latter.
Minus the online bit, this is fully generalizable against any political group, (and a lot of non-political groups as well). Which groups do you choose to lambast for “not calling out toxic members of that group”? Presumably the groups that you don’t like. This is the art of politics.
“I don’t have a problem with X group, but you have to agree that the subset Y of them are really horrible so lets continue to talk about how horrible they are” is Dark Arts to the max.
This is a accurate description of a common political behavior.
But recognizing this doesn’t mean that all groups must actually have symmetrically malign subgroups, or that the mainstream in every group has the same relationship towards these subgroups. You can support the mainstream positions of both group A and group B, but be more critical of group B due to the existence of a subgroup you consider malign.
Yes of course, and most political (or other) groups are filled to the brim with self criticism. And this is very difficult to confuse with the phenomenon I am describing. In particular, if you only ever talk about how horrible subgroup B is and never suggest ways of improving the movement and you use the same language to describe subgroup B and the movement at large then you are probably engaged in politics and not constructive criticism.
This is a good example of in group criticism. The author calls out members of his political affiliation for making a stupid argument, presents an alternative framework for understanding the issue and moves on.
Repeatedly talking about how horrible subgroup B is not an example of in group criticism.
Meta-level point: out group criticism can be well reasoned and valuable. It is more often a politicized rhetorical weapon. The phenomenon I am describing is usually the latter.