That Ghandi had a positive influence towards peacefulness in the civil disobedience in his immediate environment is clear.
Am I missing a joke here to the effect that the Peace prize should be awarded even, or especially, to those who promoted peaceful efforts despite the horrific consequences of such peacefulness (in both examples I gave, the Holocaust and the megadeaths accompanying Indian independence—which might not have happened at all without Ghandi and so can be laid at his door)?
It’s a peace prize and World War II wasn’t a time for being peaceful. Peaceful strategies were contraindicated.
Which is exactly what Ghandi suggested, yet the inclusion of this point suggests you think that it somehow makes Ghandi look good. ??? Again, I suspect I’m missing some subtle joke you’re making.
I consider blaming the Holocaust on Ghandi to be utterly absurd. I don’t know what the cause of your problem with Ghandi is but that claim is just… odd. Ghandi couldn’t have pulled that off if he tried.
Which is exactly what Ghandi suggested, yet the inclusion of this point suggests you think that it somehow makes Ghandi look good. ???
No, it is just part of what makes your ridicule look petty. Ghandi recommending others do what worked for him is an example of misplaced other optimising. Given that he was just a popular figure in an entirely unrelated country and the advice he gave was no more futile than anything else they could have tried to prevent the Nazi’s doing what they did the advice he gave is not especially relevant.
Close to a million people were horribly murdered in partition. Indian independence, like American independence, was a mixed bag. But It’s not clear that the British could have prevented it, they were dead broke at the end of WW2.
Of course that leads one to wonder how influential Gandhi and Quit India actually were.
On the other hand, salt starvation has consequences, especially in a hot climate where diarrheal diseases are common. The salt tax was ended as soon as India became independent.
Illness is a major cause of salt depletion (Black 1953, 305-11). People who are already low on salt are particularly vulnerable. Large quantities of salt can be lost in fever-sweat, in vomit, and most of all in diarrhoea (Marriott 1950, 32-4). This should be continually replenished. Severe diarrhoeas can drain as much as 1 ¾ ounces of salt from the body in a single day, and thus quickly lead to severe dehydration. Without intravenous infusion of saline solution – not an option in the period being considered – recovery would have been unlikely (Souhami and Moxham 1990, 849). However, milder diarrhoeas, which as any traveller can relate are common in India, can over a few days also lead to severe depletion (Marriott 1950, 33). Rehydration can only be effected with the intake of salt. Without this salt, however much water is drunk, recovery is impossible. Many diarrhoeas are self limiting – that is they terminate of their own accord, without drugs, after a few days. Rotavirus diarrhoea, which “is the commonest cause of diarrhoea in children up to 2 years old in the tropics” (Souhami and Moxham, 257), is an important example. It is essential to keep the body from dehydrating, and salt is necessary for this. The main ingredient of modern oral rehydration solutions is salt (257).
Mild salt depletion, resulting from insufficient salt in the diet, produces “extreme lassitude” (Marriott 1950, 40). This will, of course, reduce economic output. For people already on the edge of starvation, insufficient salt will set up a cycle of economic decline.
There is a lot I don’t know about this, but I’m sure you’re right that the salt taxes cost lives. But at independence the taxes had been deeply unpopular for more than a hundred years, so it’s not clear to me whether to credit Gandhi for ending them. I had thought that it would be interesting to know whether they had been phased out in Pakistan as well, where Gandhi is not so popular, but it seems that Nehru ended them a few months before partition.
Am I missing a joke here to the effect that the Peace prize should be awarded even, or especially, to those who promoted peaceful efforts despite the horrific consequences of such peacefulness (in both examples I gave, the Holocaust and the megadeaths accompanying Indian independence—which might not have happened at all without Ghandi and so can be laid at his door)?
Which is exactly what Ghandi suggested, yet the inclusion of this point suggests you think that it somehow makes Ghandi look good. ??? Again, I suspect I’m missing some subtle joke you’re making.
I consider blaming the Holocaust on Ghandi to be utterly absurd. I don’t know what the cause of your problem with Ghandi is but that claim is just… odd. Ghandi couldn’t have pulled that off if he tried.
No, it is just part of what makes your ridicule look petty. Ghandi recommending others do what worked for him is an example of misplaced other optimising. Given that he was just a popular figure in an entirely unrelated country and the advice he gave was no more futile than anything else they could have tried to prevent the Nazi’s doing what they did the advice he gave is not especially relevant.
Close to a million people were horribly murdered in partition. Indian independence, like American independence, was a mixed bag. But It’s not clear that the British could have prevented it, they were dead broke at the end of WW2.
Of course that leads one to wonder how influential Gandhi and Quit India actually were.
On the other hand, salt starvation has consequences, especially in a hot climate where diarrheal diseases are common. The salt tax was ended as soon as India became independent.
There is a lot I don’t know about this, but I’m sure you’re right that the salt taxes cost lives. But at independence the taxes had been deeply unpopular for more than a hundred years, so it’s not clear to me whether to credit Gandhi for ending them. I had thought that it would be interesting to know whether they had been phased out in Pakistan as well, where Gandhi is not so popular, but it seems that Nehru ended them a few months before partition.