What does GOOD Zettlekastern capturing look like? I’ve never been able to make it work. Like, what do the words on the page look like? What is the optima formula? How does one balance the need for capturing quickly and capturing effectively?
The other thing I find is having captured notes, and I realize the whole point of the Zettlekasten is inter-connectives that should lead to a kind of strategic serendipity. Where if you record enough note cards about something, one will naturally link to another.
However I have not managed to find a system which allows me to review and revist in a way which gets results. I think capturing is the easy part, I capture a lot. Review and Commit. That’s why I’m looking for a decision making model. And I wonder if that system can be made easier by having a good standardized formula that is optimized between the concerns of quickly capturing notes, and making notes “actionable” or at least “future-useful”.
For example, if half-asleep in the night I write something cryptic like “Method of Loci for Possums” or “Automate the Race Weekend”, sure maybe it will in a kind of Brian Eno Oblique Strategies or Delphi Oracle way be a catalyst for some kind of thought. But then I can do that with any sort of gibberish. If it was a good idea, there it is left to chance that I have captured the idea in such a way that I can recreate it at another time. But more deliberation on the contents of a note takes more time, which is the trade-off.
Is there a format, a strategy, a standard that speeds up the process while preserving the ability to create the idea/thought/observation at a later date?
Hmm I get the sense that you’re overcomplicating things. IMO ‘good’ Zettelkasten is very simple.
Write down your thoughts (and give them handles)
Revisit your thoughts periodically. Don’t be afraid to add to / modify the earlier thoughts. Think new thoughts following up on the old ones. Then write them down (see step 1).
I claim that anybody who does this is practising Zettelkasten. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is gatekeeping what is (IMO) a very simple and beautiful idea. I also claim that, even if you feel this is clunky to begin with, you’ll get better at it very quickly as your brain adjusts to doing it. ′
Good Zettelkasten isn’t about some complicated scheme. It’s about getting the fundamentals right.
Now on to some object level advice.
Like, what do the words on the page look like? What is the optima formula? How does one balance the need for capturing quickly and capturing effectively?
I find it useful to start with a clear prompt (e.g. ‘what if X’, ‘what does Y mean for Z’, or whatever my brain cooks up in the moment) and let my mind wander around for a bit while I transcribe my stream of consciousness. After a while (e.g. when i get bored) I look back at what I’ve written, edit / reorganise a little, try to assign some handle, and save it.
It helps here to be good at making your point concisely, such that notes are relatively short. That also simplifies your review.
I realize the whole point of the Zettlekasten is inter-connectives that should lead to a kind of strategic serendipity. Where if you record enough note cards about something, one will naturally link to another.
I agree that this is ideal, but I also think you shouldn’t feel compelled to ‘force’ interconnections. I think this is describing the state of a very mature Zettelkasten after you’ve revisited and continuously-improved notes over a long period of time. When you’re just starting out I think it’s totally fine to just have a collection of separate notes that you occasionally cross-link.
review and revist in a way which gets results
I think you shouldn’t feel chained to your past notes? If certain thoughts resonate with you, you’ll naturally keep thinking about them. And when you do it’s a good idea to revisit the note where you first captured them. But feeling like you have to review everything is counterproductive, esp if you’re still building the habit. FWIW I made this mistake when I was trying to practise Zettelkasten at first, so I totally get it.
I think you should relax a bit, and focus on building a consistent writing habit. At some point, when you feel like you’ve gone around in circles on the same idea a few times, that’ll be a good excuse to review some of your old notes and refactor.
If you do decide you want to build a reviewing habit, I’d suggest relatively simple and low-commitment schemes, like ‘every week I’ll spend 5 minutes skimming all the notes I wrote in the last week’ (and only go further if you feel excited)
Is there a format, a strategy, a standard that speeds up the process while preserving the ability to create the idea/thought/observation at a later date?
IMO it’s better to let go of the idea that there’s some ‘perfect’ way of doing it. Everyone’s way of doing it is probably different, Just do it, observe what works, do more of that. And you’ll get better. a
I find it useful to start with a clear prompt (e.g. ‘what if X’, ‘what does Y mean for Z’, or whatever my brain cooks up in the moment) and let my mind wander around for a bit while I transcribe my stream of consciousness. After a while (e.g. when i get bored) I look back at what I’ve written, edit / reorganise a little, try to assign some handle, and save it.
That is helpful, thank you.
I think you shouldn’t feel chained to your past notes? If certain thoughts resonate with you, you’ll naturally keep thinking about them.
This doesn’t match up with my experience. For example, I have hundreds, HUNDREDS of film ideas. And sometimes I’ll be looking through and be surprised by how good one was—as in I think “I’d actually like to see that film but I don’t remember writing this”. But they are all horrendously impractical in terms of resources. I don’t really have a reliable method of going through and managing 100s of film ideas, and need a system for evaluating them. Reviewing weekly seems good for new notes, but what about old notes from years ago?
That’s probably two separate problems, the point I’m trying to make is that even non-film ideas, I have a lot of notes that just sit in documents unvisted and unused. Is there any way to resurrect them, or at least stop adding more notes to the pile awaiting a similar fate? Weekly Review doesn’t seem enough because not enough changes in a week that an idea on Monday suddenly becomes actionable on Sunday.
Not all my notes pertain to film ideas, but this is perhaps the best kept, most organized and complete note system I have hence why I mention it.
IMO it’s better to let go of the idea that there’s some ‘perfect’ way of doing it. Everyone’s way of doing it is probably different, Just do it, observe what works, do more of that. And you’ll get better.
Yeah but nothing is working for me, forget a perfect model, a working model would be nice. A “good enough” model would be nice.
HUNDREDS of film ideas. And sometimes I’ll be looking through and be surprised by how good one was—as in I think “I’d actually like to see that film but I don’t remember writing this”.
Note that I think some amount of this is inevitable, and I think aiming for 100% retention is impractical (and also not necessary). If you try to do it you’ll probably spend more time optimising your knowledge system than actually… doing stuff with the knowledge.
It’s also possible you could benefit from writing better handles. I guess for film, good handles could look like a compelling title, or some motivating theme / question you wanted to explore in the film. Basically, ‘what makes the film good?’ Why did it resonate with you when you re-read it? That’ll probably tell you how to give a handle. Also, you can have multiple handles. The more ways you can reframe something to yourself the more likely you are to have one of the framings pull you back later.
Thanks for preserving with my questions and trying to help me find an implementation. I’m going to try and reverse engineer my current approach to handles.
Oh of course, 100% retention is impossible. As ridiculous and arbitrary as it is, I’m using Sturgeon’s law as a guide for now.
quickly capturing notes, and making notes “actionable” or at least “future-useful”.
“Future useful” to me means two things: 1. I can easily remember the rough ‘shape’ of the note when I need to and 2. I can re-read the note to re-enter the state of mind I was at when I wrote the note.
I think writing good handles goes a long way towards achieving 1, and making notes self-contained (w. most necessary requisites included, and ideas developed intuitively) is a good way to achieve 2.
What does GOOD Zettlekastern capturing look like? I’ve never been able to make it work. Like, what do the words on the page look like? What is the optima formula? How does one balance the need for capturing quickly and capturing effectively?
The other thing I find is having captured notes, and I realize the whole point of the Zettlekasten is inter-connectives that should lead to a kind of strategic serendipity. Where if you record enough note cards about something, one will naturally link to another.
However I have not managed to find a system which allows me to review and revist in a way which gets results. I think capturing is the easy part, I capture a lot. Review and Commit. That’s why I’m looking for a decision making model. And I wonder if that system can be made easier by having a good standardized formula that is optimized between the concerns of quickly capturing notes, and making notes “actionable” or at least “future-useful”.
For example, if half-asleep in the night I write something cryptic like “Method of Loci for Possums” or “Automate the Race Weekend”, sure maybe it will in a kind of Brian Eno Oblique Strategies or Delphi Oracle way be a catalyst for some kind of thought. But then I can do that with any sort of gibberish. If it was a good idea, there it is left to chance that I have captured the idea in such a way that I can recreate it at another time. But more deliberation on the contents of a note takes more time, which is the trade-off.
Is there a format, a strategy, a standard that speeds up the process while preserving the ability to create the idea/thought/observation at a later date?
What do GOOD Zettlekastern notes look like?
Hmm I get the sense that you’re overcomplicating things. IMO ‘good’ Zettelkasten is very simple.
Write down your thoughts (and give them handles)
Revisit your thoughts periodically. Don’t be afraid to add to / modify the earlier thoughts. Think new thoughts following up on the old ones. Then write them down (see step 1).
I claim that anybody who does this is practising Zettelkasten. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is gatekeeping what is (IMO) a very simple and beautiful idea. I also claim that, even if you feel this is clunky to begin with, you’ll get better at it very quickly as your brain adjusts to doing it. ′
Good Zettelkasten isn’t about some complicated scheme. It’s about getting the fundamentals right.
Now on to some object level advice.
I find it useful to start with a clear prompt (e.g. ‘what if X’, ‘what does Y mean for Z’, or whatever my brain cooks up in the moment) and let my mind wander around for a bit while I transcribe my stream of consciousness. After a while (e.g. when i get bored) I look back at what I’ve written, edit / reorganise a little, try to assign some handle, and save it.
It helps here to be good at making your point concisely, such that notes are relatively short. That also simplifies your review.
I agree that this is ideal, but I also think you shouldn’t feel compelled to ‘force’ interconnections. I think this is describing the state of a very mature Zettelkasten after you’ve revisited and continuously-improved notes over a long period of time. When you’re just starting out I think it’s totally fine to just have a collection of separate notes that you occasionally cross-link.
I think you shouldn’t feel chained to your past notes? If certain thoughts resonate with you, you’ll naturally keep thinking about them. And when you do it’s a good idea to revisit the note where you first captured them. But feeling like you have to review everything is counterproductive, esp if you’re still building the habit. FWIW I made this mistake when I was trying to practise Zettelkasten at first, so I totally get it.
I think you should relax a bit, and focus on building a consistent writing habit. At some point, when you feel like you’ve gone around in circles on the same idea a few times, that’ll be a good excuse to review some of your old notes and refactor.
If you do decide you want to build a reviewing habit, I’d suggest relatively simple and low-commitment schemes, like ‘every week I’ll spend 5 minutes skimming all the notes I wrote in the last week’ (and only go further if you feel excited)
IMO it’s better to let go of the idea that there’s some ‘perfect’ way of doing it. Everyone’s way of doing it is probably different, Just do it, observe what works, do more of that. And you’ll get better. a
Hope that helped haha.
That is helpful, thank you.
This doesn’t match up with my experience. For example, I have hundreds, HUNDREDS of film ideas. And sometimes I’ll be looking through and be surprised by how good one was—as in I think “I’d actually like to see that film but I don’t remember writing this”. But they are all horrendously impractical in terms of resources. I don’t really have a reliable method of going through and managing 100s of film ideas, and need a system for evaluating them. Reviewing weekly seems good for new notes, but what about old notes from years ago?
That’s probably two separate problems, the point I’m trying to make is that even non-film ideas, I have a lot of notes that just sit in documents unvisted and unused. Is there any way to resurrect them, or at least stop adding more notes to the pile awaiting a similar fate? Weekly Review doesn’t seem enough because not enough changes in a week that an idea on Monday suddenly becomes actionable on Sunday.
Not all my notes pertain to film ideas, but this is perhaps the best kept, most organized and complete note system I have hence why I mention it.
Yeah but nothing is working for me, forget a perfect model, a working model would be nice. A “good enough” model would be nice.
Note that I think some amount of this is inevitable, and I think aiming for 100% retention is impractical (and also not necessary). If you try to do it you’ll probably spend more time optimising your knowledge system than actually… doing stuff with the knowledge.
It’s also possible you could benefit from writing better handles. I guess for film, good handles could look like a compelling title, or some motivating theme / question you wanted to explore in the film. Basically, ‘what makes the film good?’ Why did it resonate with you when you re-read it? That’ll probably tell you how to give a handle. Also, you can have multiple handles. The more ways you can reframe something to yourself the more likely you are to have one of the framings pull you back later.
Thanks for preserving with my questions and trying to help me find an implementation. I’m going to try and reverse engineer my current approach to handles.
Oh of course, 100% retention is impossible. As ridiculous and arbitrary as it is, I’m using Sturgeon’s law as a guide for now.
“Future useful” to me means two things: 1. I can easily remember the rough ‘shape’ of the note when I need to and 2. I can re-read the note to re-enter the state of mind I was at when I wrote the note.
I think writing good handles goes a long way towards achieving 1, and making notes self-contained (w. most necessary requisites included, and ideas developed intuitively) is a good way to achieve 2.