what about being tied down with your eyes taped open, and then a handful of sand thrown in your face
Unknown—this is called torture, and as such would register on my torture scale. Is it as bad as waterboarding? No. Do I measure them on a comparable scale? Yes. Can I, hence, imagine a value for N where N(Sand) > (Waterboarding)? Yes, I can. I stand by my previous assertion.
However, I’m beginning to see that this is a problem of interpretation. I am fully on board with Eliezer’s math, I’m happy to shut up and multiply lives by probabilities, and I do have genuine doubts about whether I’m basing my decision on squeamishness. I hope not. But currently I see no reason to think I am.
Each person merely thinks that he wouldn’t mind suffering a speck as an individual in order to save someone from torture.
Each person merely thinks? But you would retort, confidently, that they are in fact erroneous and irrational, you are rational and correct, and ask that the rods be inserted posthaste? To be honest mate, even if I did personally believe N dust motes ‘added up to torture’, if all those people said ‘don’t bother, we’ll take the dust’, I’d do so. If only because the perceived authority of that many people asserting something would (by Eliezer’s own logic) amount to enormous evidence that my decision was wrong. And this is vindicated (for people like me at least) in that if I were one of the 3^^^3 and you were the unlucky one, I’d urge you to reconsider along with everyone else.
What if they each are willing to be tortured for 25 years? Is it better to torture a googolplex people for 25 years than one person for 50 years?
These are two different questions. The first is about people telling you what they’re willing to do. The second is you deciding what gets done. The second is the scenario that we’re confronted with, and my previous comment addresses that question.
Larry, you’re not right. Two people getting dust motes in their eye is worse than one. Two people getting tortured is worse than one.
what about being tied down with your eyes taped open, and then a handful of sand thrown in your face
Unknown—this is called torture, and as such would register on my torture scale. Is it as bad as waterboarding? No. Do I measure them on a comparable scale? Yes. Can I, hence, imagine a value for N where N(Sand) > (Waterboarding)? Yes, I can. I stand by my previous assertion.
However, I’m beginning to see that this is a problem of interpretation. I am fully on board with Eliezer’s math, I’m happy to shut up and multiply lives by probabilities, and I do have genuine doubts about whether I’m basing my decision on squeamishness. I hope not. But currently I see no reason to think I am.
Each person merely thinks that he wouldn’t mind suffering a speck as an individual in order to save someone from torture.
Each person merely thinks? But you would retort, confidently, that they are in fact erroneous and irrational, you are rational and correct, and ask that the rods be inserted posthaste? To be honest mate, even if I did personally believe N dust motes ‘added up to torture’, if all those people said ‘don’t bother, we’ll take the dust’, I’d do so. If only because the perceived authority of that many people asserting something would (by Eliezer’s own logic) amount to enormous evidence that my decision was wrong. And this is vindicated (for people like me at least) in that if I were one of the 3^^^3 and you were the unlucky one, I’d urge you to reconsider along with everyone else.
What if they each are willing to be tortured for 25 years? Is it better to torture a googolplex people for 25 years than one person for 50 years?
These are two different questions. The first is about people telling you what they’re willing to do. The second is you deciding what gets done. The second is the scenario that we’re confronted with, and my previous comment addresses that question.
Larry, you’re not right. Two people getting dust motes in their eye is worse than one. Two people getting tortured is worse than one.