I think that in natural environments both kind of actions are actually actions taken by the same kind of people. The most power-seeking cohort on Earth (San-Francisco start up enterpreneurs) is obsessed with mindfulness, meditations, psychedelics, etc. If you squint and look at history of esoterism, you will see tons of powerful people who wanted to become even more powerful through greater personal coherence (alchemical Magnum Opus, this sort of stuff).
I think the SF-start-up-cohort analogy suggests that if you are first (immensely capable) then you’ll pursue (coherence) as a kind of side effect, because it’s pleasant to pursue.
But, if you look the story of those esotericists who pursue (coherence) as a means of becoming (immensely capable) then it looks like this just kinda sucks as a means. Like you may gather some measure of power incidentally because the narrative product of coherence is a thing you can sell to a lot of people; but apart from the sales funnel it doesn’t look to me like it gets you much of anything.
And like… to return to SF, there’s a reason that the meme about doing ayahuasca in South America does not suggest it’s going to help people acquire immense capabilities :)
if you are first (immensely capable) then you’ll pursue (coherence) as a kind of side effect, because it’s pleasant to pursue.
I’m certain it’s very straw motivation.
Imagine that you are Powerful Person. You find yourself lying in bed all day wallowing in sorrows of this earthly vale. You feel sad and you don’t do anything.
This state is clearly counterproductive for any goal you can have in mind. If you care about sorrows of this earthly vale, you would do better if you earn additional money and donate it, if you don’t, then why suffer? Therefore, you try to mold your mind in shape which doesn’t allow for laying in bed wallowing in sorrows.
From my personal experience, I have ADHD and I’m literally incapable to even write this comment without at least some change of my mindset from default.
it looks like this just kinda sucks as a means
It certainly sucks, because it’s not science and engineering, it’s collection of tricks which may work for you or may not.
On the other hand, we are dealing with selection effects—highly-coherent people don’t need artificial means to increase it and people actively seeking artificial coherence are likely to have executive function deficits or mood disorders.
Also, some methods of increasing coherence are not very dramatic. Writing can plausibly make you more coherent because during writing you will think about your thought process and nobody will notice, because it’s not as sudden as personality change after psychedelics.
I think that in natural environments both kind of actions are actually actions taken by the same kind of people. The most power-seeking cohort on Earth (San-Francisco start up enterpreneurs) is obsessed with mindfulness, meditations, psychedelics, etc. If you squint and look at history of esoterism, you will see tons of powerful people who wanted to become even more powerful through greater personal coherence (alchemical Magnum Opus, this sort of stuff).
Maybe?
I think the SF-start-up-cohort analogy suggests that if you are first (immensely capable) then you’ll pursue (coherence) as a kind of side effect, because it’s pleasant to pursue.
But, if you look the story of those esotericists who pursue (coherence) as a means of becoming (immensely capable) then it looks like this just kinda sucks as a means. Like you may gather some measure of power incidentally because the narrative product of coherence is a thing you can sell to a lot of people; but apart from the sales funnel it doesn’t look to me like it gets you much of anything.
And like… to return to SF, there’s a reason that the meme about doing ayahuasca in South America does not suggest it’s going to help people acquire immense capabilities :)
I’m certain it’s very straw motivation.
Imagine that you are Powerful Person. You find yourself lying in bed all day wallowing in sorrows of this earthly vale. You feel sad and you don’t do anything.
This state is clearly counterproductive for any goal you can have in mind. If you care about sorrows of this earthly vale, you would do better if you earn additional money and donate it, if you don’t, then why suffer? Therefore, you try to mold your mind in shape which doesn’t allow for laying in bed wallowing in sorrows.
From my personal experience, I have ADHD and I’m literally incapable to even write this comment without at least some change of my mindset from default.
It certainly sucks, because it’s not science and engineering, it’s collection of tricks which may work for you or may not.
On the other hand, we are dealing with selection effects—highly-coherent people don’t need artificial means to increase it and people actively seeking artificial coherence are likely to have executive function deficits or mood disorders.
Also, some methods of increasing coherence are not very dramatic. Writing can plausibly make you more coherent because during writing you will think about your thought process and nobody will notice, because it’s not as sudden as personality change after psychedelics.