I think a relatively tight analogy can be made between attitudes towards the authoritarianism of a military bootcamp and attitudes towards romantic relationships. Like, if you go through a string of really bad relationships with partners who consistently abused you, you might update that there’s something inherently abusive about relationships and that you just shouldn’t be in one again, ever, because your autonomy is too important. On the other hand there is such a thing as a healthy relationship, even a healthy relationship in which you have less than perfect autonomy because you’ve made some commitments that you’re following through on, and you might be lucky enough to find yourself in one in the future if you’re open to the possibility and search carefully for someone to commit to.
I think I disagree that the pendulum will swing back in the future though. The rationality community being the way it is now, prioritizing flexibility the way it does now, probably has the property that it attracts people who are prioritizing flexibility and turns off people who are looking for reliability. So if anything I expect the problem to get worse over time unless someone makes a deliberate effort to attract looking-for-reliability sorts of people—hopefully Dragon Army can do this.
a relatively tight analogy can be made between attitudes towards the authoritarianism of a military bootcamp and attitudes towards romantic relationships
I don’t get the analogy. So, if you go through a string of really bad military bootcamps? But you need to stay open to the possibility of a really good bootcamp that you can and should commit to?
Yes, but using “military bootcamp” as a symbol of broader kinds of authorities you could submit to, e.g. schools, employers, governments, and keeping in mind that people are learning about how authorities work based on others’ experiences and not just their own.
I think a relatively tight analogy can be made between attitudes towards the authoritarianism of a military bootcamp and attitudes towards romantic relationships. Like, if you go through a string of really bad relationships with partners who consistently abused you, you might update that there’s something inherently abusive about relationships and that you just shouldn’t be in one again, ever, because your autonomy is too important. On the other hand there is such a thing as a healthy relationship, even a healthy relationship in which you have less than perfect autonomy because you’ve made some commitments that you’re following through on, and you might be lucky enough to find yourself in one in the future if you’re open to the possibility and search carefully for someone to commit to.
I think I disagree that the pendulum will swing back in the future though. The rationality community being the way it is now, prioritizing flexibility the way it does now, probably has the property that it attracts people who are prioritizing flexibility and turns off people who are looking for reliability. So if anything I expect the problem to get worse over time unless someone makes a deliberate effort to attract looking-for-reliability sorts of people—hopefully Dragon Army can do this.
I don’t get the analogy. So, if you go through a string of really bad military bootcamps? But you need to stay open to the possibility of a really good bootcamp that you can and should commit to?
Yes, but using “military bootcamp” as a symbol of broader kinds of authorities you could submit to, e.g. schools, employers, governments, and keeping in mind that people are learning about how authorities work based on others’ experiences and not just their own.