None of these should be relevant to the main point, but they still felt worthwhile to point out.
But in most cases, I think this is more of an emotional argument, or even an argument from “You would look silly saying that”. You really can’t say “Oh, he’s the good kind of criminal”, and so if you have a potentially judgmental audience and not much time to explain yourself, you’re pretty trapped. You have been forced to round to the archetypal example of that word and subtract exactly the information that’s most relevant.
I think you usually can try to parry most of these by doubling down. “In his steps, I sure wish to find myself having the courage to breaking that racist, unfair, law”. “I don’t care what you call it, I wouldn’t let children suffer from a disease just because the way you want to name my cure”.
The trick is to push back hard enough that you’re not just defending from an accusation of something bad, you are re-establishing that your position is good. If he wants to pursue that line, you are now the one attacking his stance on a value, and you can attack by pressing on points that are related to your main issue.
If you define murder as “killing another human being”, then abortion is technically murder.
If you concede the opponent definition of what’s a human being. I’m not sure conception it’s an ideal Schelling point.
2: This should be distinguished from deontology, the belief that there is some provable moral principle about how you can never murder. I don’t think this is too important a point to make, because only a tiny fraction of the people who debate these issues have thought that far ahead, and also because my personal and admittedly controversial opinion is that much of deontology is just an attempt to formalize and justify this fallacy.
In Italy this is a huge problem actually. It’s unbelievably hard to find a doctor who’s not a conscientious objector. Though I guess they would still be a small percentage of people involved in a debate on this.
I think you usually can try to parry most of these by doubling down. “In his steps, I sure wish to find myself having the courage to breaking that racist, unfair, law”. “I don’t care what you call it, I wouldn’t let children suffer from a disease just because the way you want to name my cure”.
The trick is to push back hard enough that you’re not just defending from an accusation of something bad, you are re-establishing that your position is good. If he wants to pursue that line, you are now the one attacking his stance on a value, and you can attack by pressing on points that are related to your main issue.
This came up often in this election. See, Hunter Biden. I don’t really think he’s all that bad, to be honest. We had some of the same issues in life and I relate to his problems, and understand his flaws more than most seem to.
But when I say that, I then have to contest true statements, as well as fabricated ones. There’s lots of bad things about him. Some are true, some are exaggerated or misquoted. I can apologize for the drug use, but when I have to defend myself for ‘not minding’ a ‘pedophile rapist junkie china puppet’, I simply have not come up with a way to do it.
When faced with a fallacy, and one so incredible, the only way to fight it is NOT to respond in a way that compromises you. You have to make them double down themselves with evidence or sourcing. At which point you can point out the bias, incorrect citations, or straight out fabrication of the source, as it will be, and then present a counter-source.
I think that’s far more effective, but a bit more time consuming and requires an honest interlocutor.
If you concede the opponent definition of what’s a human being. I’m not sure conception it’s an ideal Schelling point.
You can concede anything at that point. The most effective argument is not at all reliant on this definition, and the embryo to fetus can be a human at any point and it is still effective.
It’s quite simply that the woman is still in charge of her own body. No ‘responsibility’ exists here; there is no such situation where that extreme level of reliance would be forced on anyone, whether murderer, bad father, or motorist who just mortally injured the one performing world peace talks next Tuesday and your body is needed for a blood transfusion and you might die, but because you caused the accident, they are going to force you to keep him alive (since you’re the one at fault after all) so that he can save the world. And you still have hospital bills.
We would never afford the same rights to a living, breathing, born human of any age, that we give to these fetuses and embryos. They have an inhuman, literally, level of social rights. The right cares more abut the fetus than they ever would about the child.
None of these should be relevant to the main point, but they still felt worthwhile to point out.
I think you usually can try to parry most of these by doubling down. “In his steps, I sure wish to find myself having the courage to breaking that racist, unfair, law”. “I don’t care what you call it, I wouldn’t let children suffer from a disease just because the way you want to name my cure”.
The trick is to push back hard enough that you’re not just defending from an accusation of something bad, you are re-establishing that your position is good. If he wants to pursue that line, you are now the one attacking his stance on a value, and you can attack by pressing on points that are related to your main issue.
If you concede the opponent definition of what’s a human being. I’m not sure conception it’s an ideal Schelling point.
In Italy this is a huge problem actually. It’s unbelievably hard to find a doctor who’s not a conscientious objector. Though I guess they would still be a small percentage of people involved in a debate on this.
This came up often in this election. See, Hunter Biden. I don’t really think he’s all that bad, to be honest. We had some of the same issues in life and I relate to his problems, and understand his flaws more than most seem to.
But when I say that, I then have to contest true statements, as well as fabricated ones. There’s lots of bad things about him. Some are true, some are exaggerated or misquoted. I can apologize for the drug use, but when I have to defend myself for ‘not minding’ a ‘pedophile rapist junkie china puppet’, I simply have not come up with a way to do it.
When faced with a fallacy, and one so incredible, the only way to fight it is NOT to respond in a way that compromises you. You have to make them double down themselves with evidence or sourcing. At which point you can point out the bias, incorrect citations, or straight out fabrication of the source, as it will be, and then present a counter-source.
I think that’s far more effective, but a bit more time consuming and requires an honest interlocutor.
You can concede anything at that point. The most effective argument is not at all reliant on this definition, and the embryo to fetus can be a human at any point and it is still effective.
It’s quite simply that the woman is still in charge of her own body. No ‘responsibility’ exists here; there is no such situation where that extreme level of reliance would be forced on anyone, whether murderer, bad father, or motorist who just mortally injured the one performing world peace talks next Tuesday and your body is needed for a blood transfusion and you might die, but because you caused the accident, they are going to force you to keep him alive (since you’re the one at fault after all) so that he can save the world. And you still have hospital bills.
We would never afford the same rights to a living, breathing, born human of any age, that we give to these fetuses and embryos. They have an inhuman, literally, level of social rights. The right cares more abut the fetus than they ever would about the child.