But when it comes to the actual meat of the religion, prophets and priests follow the ancient human practice of making everything up as they go along. And they make up one rule for women under twelve, another rule for men over thirteen; one rule for the Sabbath and another rule for weekdays; one rule for science and another rule for sorcery…
???
I thought those rules were the outcome of competition between different factions. The factions with the better rules were more likely to win. For example, a century or two ago, part of the Jewish community decided to try ignoring the requirement to not eat shrimp etc. It looks like that isn’t working very well. As far as Jews are concerned, God really does hate shrimp.
Not only competition, but what seemed logical. I’m only 5 years late to this, but I figure I’ll add this regardless: Shrimp made people sick, so it only made sense to make rules against eating shrimp, regardless of the reason behind it making people sick. A lot of the old testament is pretty much a survival guide.
That link is however a church, and as far as I can tell does not represent the Jewish faith. From what I know, it’s not that shrimp were bad, and hated by God, but that since people got sick, it was not a great idea to eat it. Same logic that founded rules about washing your hands before dinner—they didn’t think God hated your hands, they just figured out some correlation between sickness, and filth.
That said, it’s not all good, but it seems to me that at least SOME rules were based on logic. And that whoever had the worse rules DID die more frequently.
Eh, I see this as a purely selective / survivorship-bias process:
All the little minority groups that didn’t have weird rules got assimilated into the mainstream culture and lost their identity as little minority groups. They became Persians or Greeks or Romans or Christians or Muslims, when those empires were in ascendancy. Therefore, all the little minority groups that have remained distinct for thousands of years have weird rules.
It’s not that the weird rules were good for individuals’ survival. Pretty often, you’re better off individually if you join the mainstream. But weird rules are good for maintaining group identity.
Interesting. I’ve not thought of it like that, but it would make sense—groups would drop their weird rules if they didn’t fit the larger group which they were integrated into.
However, in this case at least, it IS so that the weird rules increased survival. Rules about keeping clean were seen as weird, but were generally beneficial for the individual. Example linked to the discussion: During the Black Plague fewer Jews got infected, mainly due to the weird rules. Only negative was that this was suspicious, and these Jews were believed to be the cause… A bit of a lose-lose situation, with good intentions.
What I hear there is that in one particular circumstance, the weird rules may have increased survival from disease, but decreased survival from persecution. Net result probably nil for the individual. But persecution also maintains the minority group’s distinct status.
True. In this case, it most likely did harm in the long run, but the intentions behind were good, and logical.
It’s not always rational to generalize, but you make a good argument. Though I’m not sure - for the most part, weird rules in religion seem to be based on public opinion as much as group identity or logic. In short: Can be good or bad depending on circumstances, no matter what it is based on.
But it’s late and I’m beginning to fear for my mind. I’ll stop before I embarrass myself too much.
I see that you mention these “RULES”. I understand from an outsiders point of view that they seem that they are rules. But to a person that is Christian like me. They are not rules, they are standards that we set our life to. You know how our American culture has basic morals, no killing or steal and etc. Well the Christians culture also has moral standards set by Jesus Christ. The “RULES” are our moral standards and are not rules but they are our way of life. Also God doesn’t hate shrimp, He loves everything He has created. I don’t mean to offend, I just wanted to let you know, they are not just rules. =)
But when it comes to the actual meat of the religion, prophets and priests follow the ancient human practice of making everything up as they go along. And they make up one rule for women under twelve, another rule for men over thirteen; one rule for the Sabbath and another rule for weekdays; one rule for science and another rule for sorcery…
???
I thought those rules were the outcome of competition between different factions. The factions with the better rules were more likely to win. For example, a century or two ago, part of the Jewish community decided to try ignoring the requirement to not eat shrimp etc. It looks like that isn’t working very well. As far as Jews are concerned, God really does hate shrimp.
Not only competition, but what seemed logical. I’m only 5 years late to this, but I figure I’ll add this regardless: Shrimp made people sick, so it only made sense to make rules against eating shrimp, regardless of the reason behind it making people sick. A lot of the old testament is pretty much a survival guide.
That link is however a church, and as far as I can tell does not represent the Jewish faith. From what I know, it’s not that shrimp were bad, and hated by God, but that since people got sick, it was not a great idea to eat it. Same logic that founded rules about washing your hands before dinner—they didn’t think God hated your hands, they just figured out some correlation between sickness, and filth.
That said, it’s not all good, but it seems to me that at least SOME rules were based on logic. And that whoever had the worse rules DID die more frequently.
Eh, I see this as a purely selective / survivorship-bias process:
All the little minority groups that didn’t have weird rules got assimilated into the mainstream culture and lost their identity as little minority groups. They became Persians or Greeks or Romans or Christians or Muslims, when those empires were in ascendancy. Therefore, all the little minority groups that have remained distinct for thousands of years have weird rules.
It’s not that the weird rules were good for individuals’ survival. Pretty often, you’re better off individually if you join the mainstream. But weird rules are good for maintaining group identity.
Interesting. I’ve not thought of it like that, but it would make sense—groups would drop their weird rules if they didn’t fit the larger group which they were integrated into.
However, in this case at least, it IS so that the weird rules increased survival. Rules about keeping clean were seen as weird, but were generally beneficial for the individual. Example linked to the discussion: During the Black Plague fewer Jews got infected, mainly due to the weird rules. Only negative was that this was suspicious, and these Jews were believed to be the cause… A bit of a lose-lose situation, with good intentions.
What I hear there is that in one particular circumstance, the weird rules may have increased survival from disease, but decreased survival from persecution. Net result probably nil for the individual. But persecution also maintains the minority group’s distinct status.
True. In this case, it most likely did harm in the long run, but the intentions behind were good, and logical. It’s not always rational to generalize, but you make a good argument. Though I’m not sure - for the most part, weird rules in religion seem to be based on public opinion as much as group identity or logic. In short: Can be good or bad depending on circumstances, no matter what it is based on.
But it’s late and I’m beginning to fear for my mind. I’ll stop before I embarrass myself too much.
I see that you mention these “RULES”. I understand from an outsiders point of view that they seem that they are rules. But to a person that is Christian like me. They are not rules, they are standards that we set our life to. You know how our American culture has basic morals, no killing or steal and etc. Well the Christians culture also has moral standards set by Jesus Christ. The “RULES” are our moral standards and are not rules but they are our way of life. Also God doesn’t hate shrimp, He loves everything He has created. I don’t mean to offend, I just wanted to let you know, they are not just rules. =)
How you define a ‘rule’?